*Official* EUROCOMPULSION Alfa Romeo 4C Phase 3 Calibration Thread - Page 8 - Alfa Romeo 4C Forums
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post #71 of 132 (permalink) Old 03-28-2019, 10:12 PM
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I think this might be a bad reference. I seem to recall that the boost limit the factory ECU was limmiting to was 1.75 bar (or there abouts, 1.79?). I also recall that Greg from EC in one of his posted articles had referenced that the pressure sensor was limited to about 2 bar (29.xx psi). If memory serves, the psi limit imposed by the ECU firmware was 26 psi or so.




So based on this, one would assume, if what I posted from memory above is correct, than a reading above 26 psi would indicate that the EC tune has found a way around the imposed limit.

Reading through this read, and lots of others on here, would suggest that seeking performance by using the existing turbo and going for dramtically higher boost would bring declining returns. Unless you have a way of controlling the thermal effects of higher boost with say an improved intercooler. Hmm, interesting.

Any info on how the pops and bangs work? Like are they in all modes or perhaps Dynamic and Race, only It would be nice to be able to sneak out of my neighbourhood at dawn.
Is it 22psi or 26psi that is claimed is the "limit"? One person is saying 22psi and you are suggesting 26psi.
I was just recounting what I had read in the past. In fact I was agreeing with you that Nimo was mistaken on the 1.5 bar limit (which is what the stock ECU uses, but not a limit per se).

The reference to 26 psi has been mentioned multiple times on this board by people "in the know", or at least who we consider subject matter experts. Usually the discussions use bar, but NA people tend to use psi.

Here is an example of 1 such mention.

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The bolded portion above perfectly sums it up [IMG class=inlineimg]/images/4C-Forums_2015/smilies/tango_face_smile.png[/IMG]
I totally agree.


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Now that this thread is somewhat back on topic, let's get into it. [IMG class=inlineimg]/images/4C-Forums_2015/smilies/tango_face_grin.png[/IMG]
I will try to stay on topic. I'll ignore the troll for the time being.

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In addition to my dyno questions, above:

How much boost pressure is used in Phase1/Phase 2? Stock is 22 PSI, correct?

How does the turbo/intercooler/associated hardware cope with the added power?

Where do you see the limiting factors in the engine's ability to handle the power (transmission is the obvious one, so beyond that)?

Thanks
Phase 1 has about an extra 2psi, Phase 2 about 3.5 to 4.

The turbo/intercooler, etc. cope with it just fine. No issues there yet.

Limiting factors? Everything! Going beyond this I will probably lean towards more intercooling first, but there are other limitations as well.

Greg
There are many other mentions in other threads, but I am working on a tablet, on vacation. So YMMV
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post #72 of 132 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 07:26 AM
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After reading through a bunch of the older threads that relate to the topic of limits in the Bosch ECU, I have more questions than answers. However I will save those for another thread and let this one get back on topic for the EC P3 tune rollout.

I do though owe Nimo an apology. I did see where 1.5 bar is stated as the reading the factory ECU pulls the pressure back to when the caclulated torque exceeds the preset limit.

Thanks for the pops and bangs example.
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post #73 of 132 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 02:51 PM
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Hi all,
I have some questions to ask ...
- What is "Pops and Bangs" ? Is it the same as the back pressure sound some of "uncivilized" us called ... fart ? To be honest, I got these fart sounds more with the stock exhaust than the Corsa, while in general, the later is louder.
- I kind of like the idea of the intercooler. However, without the upgraded ECU, does it help in the ... pops and bangs ?
- Next, those Phase 1,2, 3 ECU upgrades. As I understand, is it required to have the upgrades for mid-pipe/exhaust, spark plugs, V2, intercooler before considering the Phase 3. I had Corsa and V2 already, so spark plugs and intercooler are next. However, while not yet talking about any ECU upgrade, will I see a performance gain ?
- I did not have the EuroCompulsion ECU upgrade kit/whatever at any phase. So I understand, there are 3 phases now, or 3 "grades" right ? For each phase, there are 2 options, one is for me to send you my stock ECU, you do your SW write over, then send it back to me. The second option is to buy from you an ECU with upgraded SW for the Phase I want, keeping my own stock ECU. The second option is much more expensive than the first option at any phase. (if that is the case, why do we go with second option, what is the trade off ? car warranty get voided if we muck with original stock ECU ?).
- another side question, when you mention pipe exhaust upgrade, what is that ? does that mean the catless pipe ? will that fail smog test ?
Thanks
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post #74 of 132 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 05:29 PM
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Hi all,
I have some questions to ask ...
- What is "Pops and Bangs" ?
I won't attempt to answer the questions on EC's behalf, but you can watch the video on this thread (go to previous page, or click on this permalink to get there) to see the explanation and hear the result and how you activate it.
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post #75 of 132 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 05:39 PM
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Is it 22psi or 26psi that is claimed is the "limit"? One person is saying 22psi and you are suggesting 26psi.

Pops and Bangs will operate the same way we have it setup for the newer Giulia/Stelvio Models. It is done on command.

See this Video for reference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VECTRBm7rzQ

We will have the 4C Instructional Video up shortly in regards.
Love that sound!
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post #76 of 132 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 06:27 PM
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Due to stricter noise regs in Western countries, pops and bangs and crackles on the overrun have become the norm for fast cars. It is a way to liven up the exhaust sound, without breaking any decibel laws in the EU or North America.
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post #77 of 132 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 06:34 PM
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It’s pretty common now my Audi RS has it and much more pronounced after an APR Tune🤗.

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post #78 of 132 (permalink) Old 03-29-2019, 11:21 PM
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I see. Thanks 4Canada. I have to say, pops and bangs were .. LOUD.
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post #79 of 132 (permalink) Old 03-30-2019, 09:50 AM
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AFAIK pops and bangs let the fuel continu to flow so the turbo keeps spinning, hence giving a more immediate trottle response. Explanation I found on a tuners website.
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post #80 of 132 (permalink) Old 03-30-2019, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Dave,

I have some questions to ask ...
- What is "Pops and Bangs" ? Is it the same as the back pressure sound some of "uncivilized" us called ... fart ? To be honest, I got these fart sounds more with the stock exhaust than the Corsa, while in general, the later is louder. See the Video we have posted, its essentially over-run created by altering deceleration timing maps. (No fuel dumps)


- I kind of like the idea of the intercooler. However, without the upgraded ECU, does it help in the ... pops and bangs ? The intercooler will benefit any phase, including stock. Calibrating the vehicle will take full advantage of the added components.

- Next, those Phase 1,2, 3 ECU upgrades. As I understand, is it required to have the upgrades for mid-pipe/exhaust, spark plugs, V2, intercooler before considering the Phase 3. I had Corsa and V2 already, so spark plugs and intercooler are next. However, while not yet talking about any ECU upgrade, will I see a performance gain ? Yes the car will take advantage to a degree of the modifications but to a lesser degree than having the car tuned. these cars are wide-band with adaptive logic.

- I did not have the EuroCompulsion ECU upgrade kit/whatever at any phase. So I understand, there are 3 phases now, or 3 "grades" right ? Yes correct. Phase 1, Phase 2 and Phase 3.

For each phase, there are 2 options, one is for me to send you my stock ECU, you do your SW write over, then send it back to me. The second option is to buy from you an ECU with upgraded SW for the Phase I want, keeping my own stock ECU. The second option is much more expensive than the first option at any phase. (if that is the case, why do we go with second option, what is the trade off ? The clone allows you to preserve you factory ECU for warranty concerns, what people may not realize is that a New ECM for these cars cost $1600+, we need to purchase them to create the clone. Hence the price.

Car warranty get voided if we muck with original stock ECU ? - Technically yes but it would not be something that is generally looked for, unless the car was driven. It will also contain your VIN.

- another side question, when you mention pipe exhaust upgrade, what is that ? does that mean the catless pipe ? will that fail smog test ? Essentially we want the exhaust to able to flow better, the stock mid-pipe on these cars narrow to 1.6", after market systems such as the center-line & magnaflow systems run a 2.5" diameter throughout. These are cat-back systems that do not effect emissions. We do have the Supersprint and Notivec down-pipe options available, those will alter the cat.


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