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Yes, that is exactly what I would like to see. I don‘t know any sports car, where the air is directed under the hood and not above.
So, I wait for some solutions to show up 👍
 

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Discussion Starter #663
4C is full of miraculous beyond imaginable high tech tricks. :D I think the award for the best part (discovered so far) still goes to the supersoft rear arm rubber bushings. They go super nice along with super stiff carbon chassis, non assisted steering, 2 degree front caster and super short almost square wheelbase / trackstance ratio. Put some high performance tires on and your 4C is ready for some wicked random steering outputs not in any way connected with your steering wheel inputs. 😂
 

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At this point, there is an opportunity to touch on something that is very disturbing to me at 4C .The design of front airflow for engine and AC cooling is completely missed so it is not a good idea to increase the downforce in the rear but in the front. There is too much lift in the front now, so I think that a concrete front modification is needed first. My thinking is shown in the attached pictures. What is your opinion?

Stock design:
View attachment 103384
Modification option:
View attachment 103385
Won’t the angle of the radiator increase lift in the second diagram? Modelling is needed to test.
 

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At this point, there is an opportunity to touch on something that is very disturbing to me at 4C .The design of front airflow for engine and AC cooling is completely missed so it is not a good idea to increase the downforce in the rear but in the front. There is too much lift in the front now, so I think that a concrete front modification is needed first. My thinking is shown in the attached pictures. What is your opinion?

Stock design:
View attachment 103384
Modification option:
View attachment 103385
Yes and No.
Yes, some of the air goes under the car like in your images and that adds some lift on the front BUT:
1) only a part of the air can pass through the radiators and then under the grill - that flow I don't think it is powerfull enough to create much force (lift) on the front
2) the air that hits the front bonnet and the windscreen is creating downforce (I believe considerably more than the lift created by the radiators flow)

What i think is bad about this flow: it adds to the air that is already there and in turn it creates lift with the entire undertray (on both ends of the car). So not only the front suffers but also the rear.

On my car I routed that air towards the brakes and sealed the grill under the front (I will see the effect on the next track day). I also plan to route some of the pressure from the front fenders to the windscreen (under the bonnet).

At least this is my opinion.
 

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I agree that the matter is more complex and not is not so easy as it might seem at first look. When comparing the front air intakes, we can see that quite a lot of the cooling air goes under the car ... at least in the same ratio. This is like we placing the front lip 20 cm from the floor instead of 10 cm. Surely this air must be taken somewhere else. Maybe through the hood to the side and provide additional cooling for the rear intercooler.
103400

But Alfa engineers think differently and I'm a little confused now.
Downforce.jpg alfa-romeo-4c-quadrifoglio_5.jpg
 

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I agree that the matter is more complex and not is not so easy as it might seem at first look. When comparing the front air intakes, we can see that quite a lot of the cooling air goes under the car ... at least in the same ratio. This is like we placing the front lip 20 cm from the floor instead of 10 cm. Surely this air must be taken somewhere else. Maybe through the hood to the side and provide additional cooling for the rear intercooler.
View attachment 103400
But Alfa engineers think differently and I'm a little confused now.
View attachment 103401 View attachment 103402
“Flat underbody creates downforce.” Which it does. The photo shows the radiator waste air but I don’t think that they were specifically referring to that contributing to downforce.
 

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Yes, that is exactly what I would like to see. I don‘t know any sports car, where the air is directed under the hood and not above.
So, I wait for some solutions to show up 👍
actually diverting "radiator" air down is quite common - Miata, S2000, my 2010 Boxster all have this. Probably rest of Porsches have it too.
It looks wrong but this is how they do it....
 

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4C is full of miraculous beyond imaginable high tech tricks. :D I think the award for the best part (discovered so far) still goes to the supersoft rear arm rubber bushings. They go super nice along with super stiff carbon chassis, non assisted steering, 2 degree front caster and super short almost square wheelbase / trackstance ratio. Put some high performance tires on and your 4C is ready for some wicked random steering outputs not in any way connected with your steering wheel inputs. 😂
:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 

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actually diverting "radiator" air down is quite common - Miata, S2000, my 2010 Boxster all have this. Probably rest of Porsches have it too.
It looks wrong but this is how they do it....
Sorry, I was talking about sport cars like Ferrari, Lambo and as well Porsche real GT Models 😉
 

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This is quite inspiring.
They try to throw the front air flow that goes under the car away from underbody + it probably creates like a barrier to the air that wants to enter from the sides of the car.

We can add some vortex generators before the rear diffuser to keep the flow attached (some small fins) --> I believe our diffuser is too steep (too much angled) and the flow is not attached hence not optimal. The angle of the diffuser should go hand in hand with the ride height --> the higher the ride height the higher the angle should be ... but up to a point.

I wonder what the downforce figures are for the ferrari --> I don't think they are that high because of the ride height which is considerable.
 

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For intermezzo...

Anyone interested in Titanium wheel studs and nuts? :love:

View attachment 103511
I purchased them from Alfa9supply and used for a month and replaced them as I heard not good for aggressive track usage. I heard that over time the question is when and not "IF" they will fail. Your thoughts Rudi?
 
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