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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
This is all so on the money. The back and front are never on the same page. The car is flat, so there is this little lateral wiggle/waggle and the car can walk outward or reduce confidence, and it's gotta be the bushings being spongy and moving laterally. One change that brings this all to more of a light for me is the types of roads I am on now, and some well-designed ones with long sweepers and good positive camber on them, and if it it doesn't feel right on smooth sweepers with positive camber, then I can image it feeling bad even on a banked oval!

Yeah, the chaos of hills, rapid switchbacks, darty, tight, short roads would never isolate the issue; it's not there long enough to telegraph back. I'm used to planting a car on a long sweeper and measuring how planted my side goes into the seat bolster and getting the g's up progressively. Just... just... missing that because it's not planted and cohesive.
 

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The "issue" you have is TIME in the long sweepers to feel what the car is doing. The issue is still there in the quick bends, but so much is happening in weight transfer, suspension adjustment, and everything else that you do not notice it.

Now, I don't have a lot of experience with high performance cars and the only other car that felt like the back end was doing something completely different from the front was my OLD Honda Accord. The 4C isn't THAT bad, but it was hard to feel exactly what the back end is doing. It doesn't feel as planted or predictable as one should think. Part of this is due to the rear bushings, part is tire size selection, and the other part is probably psychological. If you have ever had the back end step out any any major way, you become VERY sensitive to it and are constantly thinking "is it going to go now? how about now? Or now?". They designed the car to be playful, so the rear tire size was not selected for ultimate grip, but playfullness and enjoyment. What you need to do is find a long sweeper that is smooth as glass, and see how the back end feels as you slowly up the speed. Then go find a bumpy sweeper and do the same thing. The bumps will allow you to feel that back end bushing flex as the back end will feel vague and unpredictable. As other owners have noted, the Uniballs from Rudi (GMS) or AlfaWorks really fix this issue. My personal experience with the uniballs is that you can instantly feel the difference if you are driving at 7/10th or so. I noticed it on the 3rd corner of my first lap on my track after the mod, which is a long high speed sweeper that isn't 100% smooth. It really makes a big difference if you are even mildly pushing it. Now I have sooo sooo much more confidence in what the back end is doing. Now my driving (and correcting skills) have gone up significantly, but the mod helps that vagueness.

@Rainier G - No major difference in feel between full GMS Uniball press fit into stock arms, and the full GMS Arms. My race shop has done several of these Uniballs mods for several different cars and they ran into the "standard" issue of manufacturing variability from Alfa Romeo. Some were a little too loose (mine), some where a little too tight. The Full GMS arms fix that issue. So I don't think it really matter which version you get for periodic track day with semi-slick tires. I'm working on getting a pair of slicks setup for my car, and that will give the race version of the GMS Arms a real workout... But I won't be able to compare back to stock or modified stock...

@[P2] - That photo doesn't look right. The bolt, thick shim, and subframe hole are nearly the same size on my car. Yes, there is a slight tolerance to allow fit, but it isn't a big change.
Yes, yes, yes....They also allow me to enjoy the playfulness (lack of ultimate grip) of the P-Zeros on the road, another characteristic of which is they give you plenty of audible early warning when you are approaching their grip limit. As a self-confessed loaner (just about the only one on the internet) I enjoy having fun on them.
 

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My car is having uniballs fitted at Alfaworks tomorrow, and my first trackday with them is on Friday, so I should be able to chime in soon

I'm hoping to solve that feeling of front and rear doing different things that you've all mentioned. I'm on Cup 2's 215 front and 255 rear with Novitec Black coilovers.
 

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I am paying attention as well. What are the pressing adapters that come as an option with the GMS uniball kit? Why would I order with or without them?
 

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@radm - I have a set of press in adapters for the Uniballs. You may borrow them if you send them back to me when you are done. The purpose of the adapter is to allow you to press the uniballs in WITHOUT damaging the uniball. You could build your own adapter, but if you press in the wrong spot you destroy the uniball. You must press the outer sleeve, not the inner part.
 

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@radm - I have a set of press in adapters for the Uniballs. You may borrow them if you send them back to me when you are done. The purpose of the adapter is to allow you to press the uniballs in WITHOUT damaging the uniball. You could build your own adapter, but if you press in the wrong spot you destroy the uniball. You must press the outer sleeve, not the inner part.
That makes sense. Thank you for the offer!
 

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Have the same issue as OP so did the uniballs, but honestly didn’t address this “feeling” at all for me. In fact I can’t tell the difference. Also went to wider wheels and tires, which also made no difference in this regard. If anything it’s just scarier because I have more grip but still have no idea when it will give way.
 

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Have the same issue as OP so did the uniballs, but honestly didn’t address this “feeling” at all for me. In fact I can’t tell the difference. Also went to wider wheels and tires, which also made no difference in this regard. If anything it’s just scarier because I have more grip but still have no idea when it will give way.
Next drive just follow me. My Pirellis will give up way before your Pilot Super Sports so you’ll be safe. I think you might need a track day and really lean on the outside rear to get a feel for things near the limit. Practise, practise, practise.
 

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$1300 in the US. not sure of the conversion rate.
That includes the entire A Arm so a person could install them without taking it to a shop.
 

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@goldmax - GMS is charging 360Euro + whatever shipping and tax you have to pay and the shop to press them in.

@chimera - As noted, get on a track or skidpad where you can safely slide the car. However, you may have a hard time knowing when the cars back end will slide if YOUR back end is sliding in the seat. Doing everything possible to plant your butt firmly in the seat will help with feeling. Uniballs really do help with predictability and feeling. Wider rear tires allow significantly more grip at the back end. The 4C is far less "playful" with 265 rears than with the stock 235 or 245s. Playful is fun, but when you are trying to put down good laptimes it gets in the way. I easily wacked a few seconds off my lap time just in confidence and traction increase with the 265 rear tires.
 
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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
@goldmax - GMS is charging 360Euro + whatever shipping and tax you have to pay and the shop to press them in.

@chimera - As noted, get on a track or skidpad where you can safely slide the car. However, you may have a hard time knowing when the cars back end will slide if YOUR back end is sliding in the seat. Doing everything possible to plant your butt firmly in the seat will help with feeling...
Interestingly enough, I have my seat at max tilt now and can feel more with my buttocks than ever before (which bring the issue to light more than ever).
 

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To simplify installation, has anyone in the US gotten these from Alfa9 Supply?
This is what I was quoting for price
116911
 

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To simplify installation, has anyone in the US gotten these from Alfa9 Supply?
This is what I was quoting for price
View attachment 116911
🙋‍♂️
 
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