4C vs Lotus Emira? Any lingering questions?

6201 Views 118 Replies 20 Participants Last post by ALPHAmole, 5 d ago

EZ PZ

Discussion Starter · 3 mo ago

In about 10 days I'm going to FINALLY have an opportunity to test drive the Emira at a new dealership in Wilmington, NC. I've missed a couple other optys due to conflicts and I put my deposit down over 18 moths ago! I will be very curious to see how it compares to my 2015 4C and my 2008 Elise.

So obviously I will use this opty to create one or two videos for my YouTube channel, but I'd also like to use it to answer any questions that maybe haven't been answered yet - or not to everyone's full satisfaction. To add to this, the Dealer Managers are all meeting with Lotus in California this week and should have the latest and best information on production schedules, etc.

So I know by now there have been plenty of Emira reviews, etc., but I was wondering if there were still any lingering questions that I should try to answer while I have this opty. The test car will be a Nimbus Gray V6 First Edition and I'll supposedly have it for 20-30 minutes.

So, any lingering questions out there?

Are any other 4C owners considering a Lotus Emira? Do you have a deposit down?

Thanks in advance, Peter

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ViscontiVerde164L

· #81 · 18 d ago

No one hurt my feelings...but it is a statistical fact that Americans are Obese...something like 40% of us. I, too am overweight...5 more to go....That is what these cars are being built to accept. 2 Camaros at track Friday ...instructors...both are grossly overweight....open your eyes....its a sad truth. Cuse the labeling concept...you must be one of the younger generation... you don't fit in a $C or Elise if you are "groslsy" overweight meaning +50lbs which is getting to be WAY too common. It was actually PROFOUNDLY telling to the conversation. Euro cars cater much less to those that are fat (cuse Obese...cuse grossly overweight....cuse weight challenged.....)
Cqan you eat a Baconator??? I sure can't! That was not made for Joe Fit. Did I touch a nerve Wuuuhooo......

ALPHAmole

· #82 · 18 d ago

That's actually an interesting observation, because I don't consider myself a fat ass and the base C8 seat bolsters fit me snuggly w/ a 32 waist. Ergonomically the car is about perfect for me at 170lbs, 6'1", but the same can be said about the 4C. I don't see how very large people could be very comfortable in either car FWIW. It makes me question if you've actually sat in the car, because from a driver's perspective I find it pretty small inside. The exterior is something entirely different, as it's a large car and drives as such from a dimensional perspective. It feels somewhat light though, and it IS considering the amount of safety, cooling, tech, and engine displacement that's packed in there. ~200lbs more than the Emira and possibly lighter than the MC20 isn't bad for an American fatty.

Reactions: 1

EZ PZ

Discussion Starter · #83 · 17 d ago

ViscontiVerde164L said:
2. C8 best value. Fastest. Ugliest. Seen the most relative to numbers out there major fails. SURPRISINGLY trannies and motors. Big stuff

When I first read this, I thought "huh? large Transvestite community buying C8s"

Sign of the times I guess...

Thanks for summarizing your thoughts. But you think the 4C has less Daily Driver potential than the Elise/Exige? They're similar, but the 4C is easier as a DD because the door opening is a wee bit taller and DCT works even if you have a bum arm/shoulder/etc.

Reactions: 2

EZ PZ

Discussion Starter · #84 · 17 d ago

ViscontiVerde164L said:
No one hurt my feelings...but it is a statistical fact that Americans are Obese...something like 40% of us. I, too am overweight...5 more to go....That is what these cars are being built to accept. 2 Camaros at track Friday ...instructors...both are grossly overweight....open your eyes....its a sad truth. Cuse the labeling concept...you must be one of the younger generation... you don't fit in a $C or Elise if you are "groslsy" overweight meaning +50lbs which is getting to be WAY too common. It was actually PROFOUNDLY telling to the conversation. Euro cars cater much less to those that are fat (cuse Obese...cuse grossly overweight....cuse weight challenged.....)
Cqan you eat a Baconator??? I sure can't! That was not made for Joe Fit. Did I touch a nerve Wuuuhooo......

I've been going to Europe for 50 years, my Dad is German, my wife is Spanish and I have a lot of family over there. There are several trends that i've noticed in that time and obesity is sadly one of them. Nobody beats 'Merica, but Europeans are getting a LOT FATTER. Here are the 3 observations that have really stuck out:

1) Europeans are getting FATTER
2) Europeans are driving BIGGER cars (read SUVs, vans and larger cars in general)
3) More Europeans are living in larger single family homes with yards instead of apartments

In short, they're following our trends, just to a lesser extent.

Reactions: 1

ViscontiVerde164L

· #85 · 17 d ago (Edited)

ALPHAmole said:
That's actually an interesting observation, because I don't consider myself a fat ass and the base C8 seat bolsters fit me snuggly w/ a 32 waist. Ergonomically the car is about perfect for me at 170lbs, 6'1", but the same can be said about the 4C. I don't see how very large people could be very comfortable in either car FWIW. It makes me question if you've actually sat in the car, because from a driver's perspective I find it pretty small inside. The exterior is something entirely different, as it's a large car and drives as such from a dimensional perspective. It feels somewhat light though, and it IS considering the amount of safety, cooling, tech, and engine displacement that's packed in there. ~200lbs more than the Emira and possibly lighter than the MC20 isn't bad for an American fatty.

I instructed all day on an autocross in a C8 and felt claustrophobic as a passenger. I have not driven one but I suspect the left and right seats are similar. Chop a foot off it and you drop 3-500 lbs. Now we're talking. I can say the same for almost everything American and German these days. I can't excuse companies that show such disregard f or what makes a sports car a sports car.. LIGHT & AGILE! Thus the reason this Lotus lover is getting a 4C. And Alfas just drive better than most anything else out there. I guess I have a few more years experience with vehicles that are below 3000lbs. used to be many options.
The enthusiast driver is a breed on the verge of extinction and our automotive choices are dwidling. Everything you say is spot on. We gave the world fast food and are watching everyone grow.

I never considered a 4C to have less DD potential than an Elise. I DD'd an Elise for 9 years and LOVED IT. Loved top off driving to work at 35 degrees!! Arrived AWAKE!!!

Reactions: 3

ViscontiVerde164L

· #86 · 17 d ago

jeff7251954 said:
The labeling of Corvette owners as "FAT ASSED AMERICANS" adds little to the conversation. Did someone hurt your feelings?

BTW, try a little harder to not misquote me....I might need to get more precise. Sorry I hurt your feelings

ALPHAmole

· #87 · 17 d ago

I think we just misunderstood you. Not trying to misquote (quoted the actual full text that you typed) but this is how I interpreted it....

ViscontiVerde164L said:
Not talking Z06. Regular C8 after a few years now. I know of 4 failures i have witnessed! 2motors 2 trannies. New trannies are to be expected....but motors? Yes it is technically a new motor. The thing drives a lot heavier than it is. Felt like an R8....in many ways. Its not that I'm a Eurosnob, I'm just not a FAT ASSED AMERICAN that needs that much room......

My interpretation was that you said you have actually witnessed two C8 engine failures and two transmission failures (I don't think I've read about more than 2 c8 engine failures on the forums, and even then they weren't catastrophic or on the racetrack). You said the motor is technically a new motor (which it really isn't...yes several changes though). Lastly, you implied that the C8 felt like an R8 and had a ton of room, a basic need if you happen to be a FAT ASSED AMERICAN.

ViscontiVerde164L said:
I instructed all day on an autocross in a C8 and felt claustrophobic as a passenger. I have not driven one but I suspect the left and right seats are similar. Chop a foot off it and you drop 3-500 lbs. Now we're talking. I can say the same for almost everything American and German these days. I can't excuse companies that show such disregard f or what makes a sports car a sports car.. LIGHT & AGILE! Thus the reason this Lotus lover is getting a 4C. And Alfas just drive better than most anything else out there. I guess I have a few more years experience with vehicles that are below 3000lbs. used to be many options.
The enthusiast driver is a breed on the verge of extinction and our automotive choices are dwidling. Everything you say is spot on. We gave the world fast food and are watching everyone grow.

I never considered a 4C to have less DD potential than an Elise. I DD'd an Elise for 9 years and LOVED IT. Loved top off driving to work at 35 degrees!! Arrived AWAKE!!!

Here's where it gets confusing, as my interpretation is that you've never driven a C8 but felt claustrophobic as a passenger...and that you suspect the driver's seat has the same feeling. So it's both huge and designed for fat asses (from the first quote) while also feeling small and cramped (from the second quote), or something to that effect? But you feel that the C8 drives much heavier than it is, but that's from the passenger seat butt meter. Lastly, I'm concluding the four engine and transmission failures you witnessed were likely on the track, and since you mentioned being an autocross instructor, I'm thinking they were at autocross events, which must have been the most insane displays of driving madness imaginable to explode 2 Chevy V8s and 2 transmissions at autocross speeds!

I don't really think anyone's feeling are hurt here. I also didn't think you were misquoted...we're just trying to process everything and make sense of it.

This is a really great forum with a group of fantastic car enthusiasts that participate. I've got to say that I prefer it over almost any other car forum because everyone is so helpful and courteous toward each other without the need for heavy moderation or censorship. We can agree to disagree, but we all truly love cars...that's one thing we can agree on. I look forward to hearing about what you do w/ your 4C!

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ViscontiVerde164L

· #88 · 16 d ago

Yea, let's get past all the semi paraphrasing shall we.
To be clear, I personally have witnessed one blown tranny and one blown engine. My instructor colleagues add to this list. We are all baffled by the major fails we are have on the C8. Typically, limp modes, overheating brakes and cooked tires are track day failures. I have never seen an Evora engine blow nor have I seen any isues with ANY Alfa on track. Hurray. BTW Guilia Quad is the new Ultimate driving machine in sedan world IMHO. But even it is a heavier car now.
You would be correct in your interpretation of my assessment of seating comfort in the C8. It SUCKS being a passenger esp in a car that is so large. You feel like you are in a box with tall sides. I have not driven one but my seat of the pants impression (20yrs exp) was instead of light and agile, it has typical 21st century muscular and brutish handling qualities made possible by massive tires and brakes.
I instruct full track and autocross just to be clear. Both failures were on track . TMSP and WGI.
I am in love with vehicles like my Lotus and hopefully a 4C as well as Miatas and Brz's because they are just plain FUN to drive with fingertip precision. I want to feel the road, subtle changes in camber, the sex of the ant I just ran over (my favorite description of the experience in my Elise).
No doubt Lotus has stuck with their bonded Aliminum architecture because that is what they can afford and have the technology to make. I have read, but do not know the exact numbers about 4C losing money on on every car they sold?? or is it just the amortized chassis cost. Indeed , it is a chassis more befitting to a deep 6 digit car.
When guys start making comments about "labeling", it all goes to he!!. I know the statistics...its really sad and I am trying my damndest to not enter that category...it is hard with all the junk, volume of meals, salt, sugar etc we are exposed to. Obviously a discussion that pokes the bear, but a discussion WE ALL NEED TO ADDRESS for our health. I play diet detective with all my patients with unacceptable decay rates as a dentist. Its often not one thing, but the daily linking of acid, sugar, acid, sugar.... meanwhile back to our regular thread programming...
I am 95% positive I will own an Emira eventually. Maybe Alfa will surprise us with a new toy in the future!!!
BTW, Did they discontinue 4C due to low sales or cost factors?? Aren't there like 10K 4cs out there?
I actually looked it up Alfa 4C 9195
Lotus Evora 6117 (2010-2021)
Lotus Elise 35124 (1996-2021) never knew there were this many!!!
Lotus Exige 10497 2000-2021)
Maybe Alfa should have continued to let the 4C be low volume esp with the loss of these other experential niche players??
Lotus Emira numbers look pretty promising for the company . Lotus has had a knack of releasing cars in the middle of recessions, wars, pandemics etc....I patiently wait......it s the car you can comfortably drive 500 miles to an event, beat on for 2 days, and comfortably drive home. In the elise /Exige you were tired from the drive. It was all fun but work. BTW, I sure some of the lotus talk forum members here will know me as brgelise.....

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Reactions: 2

RKBerta

· #89 · 16 d ago

EZ PZ said:
You packed a lot of things that I haven't heard elsewhere into one post, so I wonder if you can share your sources. Re: the manual on the Emira, when I sat in one last year, I noted it shifted like 'butter' in a good sense. When I test drove it last month, this was confirmed. Nothing wrong with it from my perspective. "Lotus having second thoughts about the I4" "grenaded engines" would just be curious where this is coming from. Thanks in advance, Peter

The comment about the trans was made in a Youtube video of Harry's Garage. I figure since he owns one and knows a lot more about cars than us mere mortals his opinion was valid. He does like the car despite new car issues. I don't remember where I saw the notes about the I4 but it is having issues and why it isn't yet out.

RKBerta

· #90 · 16 d ago

Alfanut said:
Does the motor from the A45 suffer from overheating in certain conditions? They might have been advised to look at the 4C cooling system. I’ve not had any problem even when tracking in over 40 deg C heat. Were they production or development cars?

Developement engines...and that is what the delay of getting the I4 versions out.

Reactions: 1

Alfanut

· #91 · 16 d ago

ViscontiVerde164L said:
Yea, let's get past all the semi paraphrasing shall we.
To be clear, I personally have witnessed one blown tranny and one blown engine. My instructor colleagues add to this list. We are all baffled by the major fails we are have on the C8. Typically, limp modes, overheating brakes and cooked tires are track day failures. I have never seen an Evora engine blow nor have I seen any isues with ANY Alfa on track. Hurray. BTW Guilia Quad is the new Ultimate driving machine in sedan world IMHO. But even it is a heavier car now.
You would be correct in your interpretation of my assessment of seating comfort in the C8. It SUCKS being a passenger esp in a car that is so large. You feel like you are in a box with tall sides. I have not driven one but my seat of the pants impression (20yrs exp) was instead of light and agile, it has typical 21st century muscular and brutish handling qualities made possible by massive tires and brakes.
I instruct full track and autocross just to be clear. Both failures were on track . TMSP and WGI.
I am in love with vehicles like my Lotus and hopefully a 4C as well as Miatas and Brz's because they are just plain FUN to drive with fingertip precision. I want to feel the road, subtle changes in camber, the sex of the ant I just ran over (my favorite description of the experience in my Elise).
No doubt Lotus has stuck with their bonded Aliminum architecture because that is what they can afford and have the technology to make. I have read, but do not know the exact numbers about 4C losing money on on every car they sold?? or is it just the amortized chassis cost. Indeed , it is a chassis more befitting to a deep 6 digit car.
When guys start making comments about "labeling", it all goes to he!!. I know the statistics...its really sad and I am trying my damndest to not enter that category...it is hard with all the junk, volume of meals, salt, sugar etc we are exposed to. Obviously a discussion that pokes the bear, but a discussion WE ALL NEED TO ADDRESS for our health. I play diet detective with all my patients with unacceptable decay rates as a dentist. Its often not one thing, but the daily linking of acid, sugar, acid, sugar.... meanwhile back to our regular thread programming...
I am 95% positive I will own an Emira eventually. Maybe Alfa will surprise us with a new toy in the future!!!
BTW, Did they discontinue 4C due to low sales or cost factors?? Aren't there like 10K 4cs out there?
I actually looked it up Alfa 4C 9195
Lotus Evora 6117 (2010-2021)
Lotus Elise 35124 (1996-2021) never knew there were this many!!!
Lotus Exige 10497 2000-2021)
Maybe Alfa should have continued to let the 4C be low volume esp with the loss of these other experential niche players??
Lotus Emira numbers look pretty promising for the company . Lotus has had a knack of releasing cars in the middle of recessions, wars, pandemics etc....I patiently wait......it s the car you can comfortably drive 500 miles to an event, beat on for 2 days, and comfortably drive home. In the elise /Exige you were tired from the drive. It was all fun but work. BTW, I sure some of the lotus talk forum members here will know me as brgelise.....

4C production stopped to free up space for the production of the MC20. The 4C was built at the Maser factory in Modena.

Reactions: 4

ViscontiVerde164L

· #92 · 16 d ago

Now that is my wet dream!!!!!

Reactions: 1

EZ PZ

Discussion Starter · #93 · 13 d ago

It is always fun and educational to catch up on this particular thread.

Well, my second C8 Corvette video just went live. This one is a review where my Dad and I discuss the C8, Emira and other cars. He's the ultimate car guy and I absolutely loved doing this with him. Hope you'll check it out and let me know if you enjoyed it. Best, Peter

Reactions: 4

RKBerta

· #94 · 13 d ago

Nice video and an unusual one also in that it shows the love and respect you have for your dad and his knowledge of cars. As an older person myself (75) I think people are too quick to dismiss what the older generation can bring to the table. I live in the Metro Detroit area and have frequently met and discussed the auto industry with the leaders and dreamers who are now retired. There is a lot of knowledge and fascinating stories. My late father-in-law was a top engineer in drive train development and since I was also an engineer, there was a huge amount of history he shared with me and it was fascinating....and really inspirational.

Reactions: 1

EZ PZ

Discussion Starter · #95 · 13 d ago

RKBerta said:
Nice video and an unusual one also in that it shows the love and respect you have for your dad and his knowledge of cars. As an older person myself (75) I think people are too quick to dismiss what the older generation can bring to the table. I live in the Metro Detroit area and have frequently met and discussed the auto industry with the leaders and dreamers who are now retired. There is a lot of knowledge and fascinating stories. My late father-in-law was a top engineer in drive train development and since I was also an engineer, there was a huge amount of history he shared with me and it was fascinating....and really inspirational.

Thanks, I really appreciate that feedback. It meant a lot to me to be able to do this w/him and I hope we can do more videos together.

ViscontiVerde164L

· #96 · 12 d ago

??4C v Emira and a C8 strolls in???

ALPHAmole

· #97 · 12 d ago

ViscontiVerde164L said:
??4C v Emira and a C8 strolls in???

It was more of a swagger...not a stroll.

Fun video! It's always interesting seeing others opinions and viewpoint. I don't agree about the front lift (expensive overrated option, IMO) as the C8's approach angle is better than many cars (4C scrapes easier) even with the Z51 option. I also don't agree with the statement that they (GM) had to have had some help with the design of it. You can love or hate GM, but it can't be argued that the Corvette has historically been an industry leader in bringing new technology to performance cars. It's cool to see you and your Dad having fun together and enjoying the cars! That's what it's all about.

Reactions: 1

ViscontiVerde164L

· #98 · 12 d ago

Like a Texan in a school shooting...............

chester

· #99 · 11 d ago

I went to COTA (Circuit of the Americas) yesterday and a man and his young son came up to my 4C as I was parking. They arrived at COTA in a C6 Corvette and wanted to see my 4C. I was left with the feeling that ALL car guys share more with each other than they do with most other people. Lets celebrate other cars- not knock them.

And for the record, what ever your name is, Texas is the best state I've lived in

Reactions: 4

Alfanut

· #100 · 11 d ago

chester said:
I went to COTA (Circuit of the Americas) yesterday and a man and his young son came up to my 4C as I was parking. They arrived at COTA in a C6 Corvette and wanted to see my 4C. I was left with the feeling that ALL car guys share more with each other than they do with most other people. Lets celebrate other cars- not knock them.

And for the record, what ever your name is, Texas is the best state I've lived in

Well said! 👍👍

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