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I found the hankooks wore out quickly compared to the toyos, what is your experience?
Who cares! We were talking about performance. I only drive them on the track and they are the closest you can get compared to a F200 slick. For me 600-1000 KM on the track is a normal range where i throw away the tires and just put new ones one. You can always go for the harder C3 compound if you want it to last longer. It is not different compared to slicks. It also depends on the track. On the Nordschleife they will last much longer than on our track. I would not recommend them for driving on regular streets. Then you are better off with a RS-3 which is astonishing in performance combined with durability and price. The Toyos are not comparable to the Z221 if we are talking about griplevel and so on. On top of this I never drove them on an Alfa 4C. All the tires mentioned above are quite good and definetely will allow a lot of fun. It is just a question what you are asking for.


If you are asking for the highest possible escalation-level of tire performance in combination with street legal tires then you are talking about the Z221. But do not expect the tire to be good for anything besides that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Key thing to remember here is that tires are subjective, unless you are spending many dollars on involved back to back tests, and even then there remains a subjective element in the elusive category of "feeling." Not to mention the infinite track and surface variables of different road courses globally.

4CRacer, The Hankooks you mention are not for sale in the US. I'm sure they are nice as you sound like you have great confidence in them.
For our market the Hankooks are very low production and hard to get, so I like to stay with the bigger brands for ease of availability and replacement during the year.

My recommendation for R888's still stands as a top trackday tire with few compromises and many benefits. Particularly for those who want to fit a tire that offers 1) a higher grip level than typical DOT tires, 2) has decent wear characteristics, 3) can be used on the street easily (I've put in many street miles on r888's) and 4) has the right size of 215f/245r for the previously mentioned BRAIDS in 17x7.5, 18x8.5.

Michelin Pilot Cup 2's will be good to test, 215/245 sizing isn't available yet for the US, maybe by summer I think.

Lastly, for top level track focused performance the Trofeo R is tough to beat and easily available in the USA. Using the 205/235 combo with 17x7, 18x8 Ultralight Forged BRAIDS as Tallinn and others have done, you get the maximum lightness of the wheels and high strength. This makes a deft combo that pairs well with the inherent design ethos of the 4C.
 

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4CRacer, The Hankooks you mention are not for sale in the US.
Sorry, I did not know that. You are right. A discussion about a tire you can´t get is useless. For the european market just if it comes to pure track performance the Z221 is unbeatable because it really has the same structure and compound as the slick. Until now I don´t know any tire you can say this about but I am sure the Toyos and the Pirellis are a better choice if it comes to availability and a part time street usage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Sorry, I did not know that. You are right. A discussion about a tire you can´t get is useless. For the european market just if it comes to pure track performance the Z221 is unbeatable because it really has the same structure and compound as the slick. Until now I don´t know any tire you can say this about but I am sure the Toyos and the Pirellis are a better choice if it comes to availability and a part time street usage.
It's funny what US market gets and what it doesn't.

The R888R is another one, no word from distributors on the US getting it. And Pilot Cup 2's only in large 18/19" sizes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Any chance of having them compliant for road usage in Italy?
Hi, no, sorry, the Fullrace wheels are not 124 compliant for Italy.

Because the very large percentage of the Fullrace wheel usage is for track type situations, there isn't enough volume going to the street usage for Braid to do the certifications which are costly.

I have read that aftermarket wheels sold prior to a couple months ago when the 124 codes went into effect are still usable on the roads in Italy, but that's not helpful for new production wheels.
 

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That means you'll be looking at going to a 215/245 width for either, correct?
Yes, most likely. They have them in 235 width for the rears but with added camber etc the understeer is not an issue any more so I think it makes sense to add width in both front and rear.

R888R is coming in OEM sizes though, if not even already available.
 

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Who cares! We were talking about performance. I only drive them on the track and they are the closest you can get compared to a F200 slick. For me 600-1000 KM on the track is a normal range where i throw away the tires and just put new ones one. You can always go for the harder C3 compound if you want it to last longer. It is not different compared to slicks. It also depends on the track. On the Nordschleife they will last much longer than on our track. I would not recommend them for driving on regular streets. Then you are better off with a RS-3 which is astonishing in performance combined with durability and price. The Toyos are not comparable to the Z221 if we are talking about griplevel and so on. On top of this I never drove them on an Alfa 4C. All the tires mentioned above are quite good and definetely will allow a lot of fun. It is just a question what you are asking for.


If you are asking for the highest possible escalation-level of tire performance in combination with street legal tires then you are talking about the Z221. But do not expect the tire to be good for anything besides that.
I care when I wore the hankooks out in 1 track day to the point I could not drive home!!!! mind you the track in question is known for being aggressive on tyres
 

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Hi, no, sorry, the Fullrace wheels are not 124 compliant for Italy.

Because the very large percentage of the Fullrace wheel usage is for track type situations, there isn't enough volume going to the street usage for Braid to do the certifications which are costly.

I have read that aftermarket wheels sold prior to a couple months ago when the 124 codes went into effect are still usable on the roads in Italy, but that's not helpful for new production wheels.

i completely understand... crappy law...
 

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I care when I wore the hankooks out in 1 track day to the point I could not drive home!!!! mind you the track in question is known for being aggressive on tyres
Thats why I bring the car on a trailer to the track. I dont drive semi-slicks anyway. We just wanted to find out what the fastest street legal tire was. For my opinion it only makes sense to bring a car on a trailer because you never know what might break... If you do this then you can also run on slicks and have an extra set of competition-rain-tires with you. Semi-Slicks make only sense for me if you need to have street-legal tires in a trackday or for insurance issues. If you are driving in a racecar-group none of this is really interesting...


And if you did more then 600 KM on that trackday then you got everything you can possibly ask for. By the way you could have stopped driving a bit earlier. If you did not reach that milage you probably have a wrong allignment with too low negative camber that will eat your tires on the outside or a different problem. Normally it is impossible to destroy the tires on just one trackday. 600 Km is the lowest mileage we got out of one set. (just track)
 

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And if you did more then 600 KM on that trackday then you got everything you can possibly ask for. By the way you could have stopped driving a bit earlier. If you did not reach that milage you probably have a wrong allignment with too low negative camber that will eat your tires on the outside or a different problem. Normally it is impossible to destroy the tires on just one trackday. 600 Km is the lowest mileage we got out of one set. (just track)
Ever tryed Grobnik? :grin2:
 

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Thats why I bring the car on a trailer to the track. I dont drive semi-slicks anyway. We just wanted to find out what the fastest street legal tire was. For my opinion it only makes sense to bring a car on a trailer because you never know what might break... If you do this then you can also run on slicks and have an extra set of competition-rain-tires with you. Semi-Slicks make only sense for me if you need to have street-legal tires in a trackday or for insurance issues. If you are driving in a racecar-group none of this is really interesting...
Quite a few organisers dictates street legal tires only on their track days, plus, for people like me that likes to go to the ring we have a set of ring-wheels at a local dealer and use our semis going back and forth to the track. Then when we want (or rather, have to) go home we just switch to "road wheels".
 

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Quite a few organisers dictates street legal tires only on their track days, plus, for people like me that likes to go to the ring we have a set of ring-wheels at a local dealer and use our semis going back and forth to the track. Then when we want (or rather, have to) go home we just switch to "road wheels".
Tallinn

how do you jack the car up to change tyres at the track

THX
 

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The "local dealer" does that. Still, I do some work as changing brake pads myself and it's quite easy to jack the car as long as you have a low profile jack. Make sure to have some rubber between the jack and the CF floor when you use the front jacking point and you'll be fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Track day season is coming up fast!

Updating this old thread with a new link as the 2015 one moved:
http://www.alfa9supply.com/4c-wheels/braid-fullrace-a

The Braids are a great track wheel, always available, great price, wide range of color choice.

And newer pics of 4Cs outfitted with Braids attached below, some of you will recognize these...
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 · (Edited)
@Matt Leavitt

Do you happen to know which of the Braid wheels are the lightest?
Hi Gale, for the Fullrace cast designs the lightest will be the thinnest widths of 17x7 and 18x8. That's 18.1 lbs front and 21.5 lbs rear.

For Forged designs, the lightest Braids are the new Forged Plus wheels. That line has extra backcuts, face slotting, and cuts on the spokes to reduce overall weight.

For example the Forged I+ in a 17" size is 16.8 lbs and the 18" rears are 17.6 lbs in 4C offsets.

Below order is, Forged I+ and Forged 7+, Forged R
 

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We are taking Braid orders now for spring/summer. The Braid factory is in full production mode, and is following strict c19 safety guidelines. Turnarounds are 2-3 weeks on cast wheels, and custom colors (red, blue, bronze, gold etc. etc, add about +1 week). We do custom Alfa9 spacing for these wheels, setting the wheels wider, so no spacers needed. We offer Braid wheels in the 17/18" stagger for the 4C in varying widths.

Braid Motorsport wheels can be ordered for the Alfa 4C in forged or cast versions. Email Alfa9 with specific questions.

Here are some photos of wheels from past builds, and many thanks to all who have contributed pics! There are many not shown here, so feel free to post up new or old pics if you are running Braids on an Alfa Romeo. If you have a favorite pic let us know, we can tell you the specs.

105732
105733
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105735
105736
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105738
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