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Selling an Alfa that is really just a re-badged Peugeot with a few different colour and wheel options would be a death knell to the brand.
Quite true, but I think the manufacturers are getting adept at differentiating models that use the same platform. Just as a tuner can change the dynamics of a car, Alfa tuners could likely do the same.
 

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Interview with Alfa's new head of of design:

Quote:
“We will be working on Stellantis Group electric platforms of different sizes. We will use the STLA in Small, Medium and Large versions and our styling approach will seek lightness. The shapes of our cars will communicate lightness. Imagine having a model and trying to take all the air out of its shape: what you get are sculpted surfaces and precise volum"

@MultiAlfaOwner What makes an Alfa Romeo to me? Italian designed, engineered and manufactured. When they were rebadging Fiats and Maserati(8C) at least they were still Italian. If all they do in this next phase is rebadge Peugeot technology into a plethora of SUVs manufactured outside Italy, and continue to charge a premium because of the badge...... good luck to them.

Why is what the PSA guys are doing, "wrong"?....
1. They are phasing out technology developed by and for Alfa Romeo (Giorgio) (And not getting Alfa to develop anything new)
2. The head of design has been replaced (because as we all know, design is what was holding Alfa Romeo back /sarcasm)
3. They will be using PSA platforms/technologies in products which carry the Alfa Romeo badge.
4. They will be manufacturing Alfas outside Italy

From the outside, this seems like PSA's/STLA's plan to sell Peugeots in N.America masquerading as Alfa Romeos (while charging a premium of course). It looks like a bunch of beancounters trying to exploit a brand. I wonder if Fiat and Maserati are being gutted in the same way. If so, i suppose going forward, if anyone wants a "real" Italian thoroughbred they will be limited to Ferrari and Lamborghini.

In my humble opinion.

Cheers
 

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A bit harsh.
Don't confuse a specialty car like the TZ or a limited run (1,000 cars worldwide in all forms) 8C with bread and butter production cars.
Nor can you compare vehicles that are over 60 years apart - markets, consumer tastes, regulations all change and drive what a company can/will sell.
And past performance does not guarantee future results (I read that somewhere :)) . What happened over a century ago, has no bearing on what we can expect the brand to become now.
Certainly, auto makers need to adapt. But certain brands have a chachet that has meaning to its clientele.
You won't see Bentley (owned by VAG) putting out a model based on the Golf, although you will see a fair bit of hardware shared all up and down the VAG lineup.
Selling an Alfa that is really just a re-badged Peugeot with a few different colour and wheel options would be a death knell to the brand.
Using common underpinnings, while offering different vehicles and driving dynamics, on the other hand, would make business sense to both the guys in suits, and the ones in bean-bag chairs.
Even moreso when it comes to absorbing the huge investment required to make the shift to EV's.

Change is not necessarily a bad thing. Change for change's sake, usually is. But the industry is going through several upheavals, and this one is required.
Hopefully, it permits the brand to not only continue, but to thrive and maintain some of its unique traits which endear it to its enthusiast owners so much.
Ya' know, you have managed to take both sides of the argument;) The 8c and the TZ-3 were just other cars re-badged, which to me is why they are not impressive or special, but as I asked before what is it that we are afraid of losing with the change in ownership and French management? Is what an Alfa is supposed to be embodied by the 8Cs of the 1930s, the 1900s of pre and post WWII or the "bread and butter" Giuliettas and Giulias and the following models? Does the Alfaness end at some point in time or does it continue through the line of change and development? Is a Tipo 916 or a 164 a real Alfa because it shares a platform with another car and is front wheel drive? I think there answer to all of these questions is yes, these are all Alfas.

Here is the list of our current Alfas;
1951 AR-51
1957 750 Series Giulietta Spider
1965 Giulia Spider
1965 Giulia Spider Veloce
1969 1750 Spider
1973 GTV (X2)
1979 Alfetta Coupe
1985 GTV-6
1987 Spider Veloce
1991 164S
2016 4C Spider
2019 Stelvio Ti
Thirteen cars which other than a basic logo and grill shape share what in common? Yes, mechanically seven of them are essentially identical but is that good, bad or is that the Alfaness? It spans almost of half a century of change and constant. I remember telling a close friend as he was driving the Stelvio that it had the same engine as his 1991 Spider, a DOHC, fuel injected, 2.0 liter four cylinder. He pushed down hard on the gas and was stunned when the 2-ton Stelvio laid it ears back and made a mad a rush for the horizon.

Yes, the cars are going to have to share components and the necessities of economics are going to drive most of the decisions but let us hope that it isn't the death knell of things like the 4C. Let us also hope that the cars will retain some individuality (Alfaness?) otherwise they may as well be badge engineered specials. The problem I saw/see it what is available and what is done with what is available. The Stelvio and the Giulia shared the same platform and sales weren't what they wanted... Why? Well IMO they didn't offer enough variety. The Stelvio and it's various packages were fine, the 4C was a great (if somewhat impractical) halo car but the Giulia was meeh!

Want to fix the Giulia, let's broaden the line-up. 4 cylinder versions; two door coupe, two door convertible, with Veloce and Ti option packages. Now you have four cars with different flavors plus the four-door versions. A two door Giulia convertible would have been new in my driveway the day it arrived at the dealer as my daily driver instead of my SL500. Shift to the V-6 and do the same things, two door coupe and convertible versions...

I've put several hundred miles on our "new" Stelvio and I can't figure out - other than the grill and the logos - what about it is Alfa. I remarked a couple of years ago as my wife and I drove through a summer rain shower on the way to an Alfa Club event that we were dry, the A/C had the inside of the car nice and cool, the windshield was clear and the car wasn't going to dissolve into a pile of ferrous oxide due to exposure to water and yet we were still in an Alfa Spider (the 4C). Will miracles never cease!

With regard to cachet maybe you should take a look at a 12 Cylinder Volkswagen Phaeton. Everything but the body sure looks like a Bentley to me, which is probably why they couldn't give them away. But here is a serious problem that Alfa faces, it's clientele. Alfa has always been a presence in Europe but we had a generation of no Alfa. Today's buyers see Alfa as just another alternative to an Audi, Merc, BMW, Lexus or Infiniti, not some high-line Italian exotic car. Therein lies the rub. Which image is Alfa going to portray? Until my wife bought the Stelvio I would not have considered the Giulia. If I wanted a four door sedan I probably would have bought Toyota or if I got it for esoteric reasons, a Jag. Now, after driving the Stelvio I'm looking to replace the SL with a Giulia or since the announcement of a new model every year, whatever may be forthcoming.

One thing I do totally disagree with you on is what happened a century ago having no bearing on today. That is exactly 180 degrees out. What happened 100 years ago is EXACTLY what the brand needs to become again. They need to change, adapt and take the lead in automotive technology and style and let the world beat the path to them to get something they can't get anywhere else. And right now Stelantis is perfectly positioned to use all of their assets to make that a reality. We as customers need to be willing to embrace the "new" Alfa Romeos and evaluate it for what it is, not what is was or what the individual pieces came from. Remember, Alfa Romeo made sports cars from four door sedans.
 

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@MultiAlfaOwner

I totally agree that Alfa needs a kick back to its roots - perhaps I didn't explain it well, or misunderstood your earlier meaning.
Just because a Frenchman started something grand 111 years ago does not mean that putting one in charge today, from Peugeot, will necessarily get Alfa where it needs to be.
That's all that I was trying to get across.
We need that kind of result. But it's the spirit of the individual and his devotion to the brand, moreso than his nationality, that I am longing for.

My earlier "not sure that is an upgrade" comment was just meant to be flippant.
 

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I see Alfa as a design language on a fun to drive car. Alfa is like po**; you know it when you see it.
And drive it. And not have to mortgage house, wife and kids to afford it!

No idea why the forum didn't like your word, BTW. Must be owned by prudes. Wasn't me who put the asterisks in!
 

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@MultiAlfaOwner

I totally agree that Alfa needs a kick back to its roots - perhaps I didn't explain it well, or misunderstood your earlier meaning.
Just because a Frenchman started something grand 111 years ago does not mean that putting one in charge today, from Peugeot, will necessarily get Alfa where it needs to be.
That's all that I was trying to get across.
We need that kind of result. But it's the spirit of the individual and his devotion to the brand, moreso than his nationality, that I am longing for.

My earlier "not sure that is an upgrade" comment was just meant to be flippant.
The first factory building of A.L.F.A. was in the first place property of Società Anonima Italiana Darracq (SAID), founded in 1906 by the French automobile firm of Alexandre Darracq, with some Italian investors. One of them, Cavaliere Ugo Stella, an aristocrat from Milan, became chairman of the SAID in 1909.[5] The firm's initial location was in Naples, but even before the construction of the planned factory had started, Darracq decided late in 1906 that Milan would be more suitable and accordingly a tract of land was acquired in the Milan suburb of Portello, where a new factory of 6,700 square metres (8,000 sq yd) was constructed. In late 1909, the Italian Darracq cars were selling slowly and the company was wound up.[6] Ugo Stella, with the other Italian co-investors, founded a new company named A.L.F.A. (Anonima Lombarda Fabbrica Automobili), buying the assets of Italian Darracq that was up to dissolution.

Not sure the Frenchmen 111 years ago knew what they were doing either....

I'm not sure where Alfa needs/wants to be. If they continue to spar with the likes of BMW, Merc, Audi, Lexus and Infiniti they are simply going to have to increase the variety of their offerings and develop a real dealer network with people who understand that lip service to the owner of a $58K SUV or $75K sports car is going to get their next purchase anywhere but at an Alfa dealer.

We have two dealers within 25 miles yet we drove 200+ mile to buy from Criswell Alfa Romeo. Why? Because one dealer had no Stelvios and the second dealer walked right past my wife and I without saying hello, got to hell or anything else while we were looking at a new Stelvio that should have been locked but wasn't. Being the [email protected] that I am I commented to him that they must make so much effing money that they don't need to sell cars anymore. When he turned back he said all of the salespeople were busy... Nothing else, not here let me get someone, please go inside and sit down and I'll have someone come over as soon as they are free, nothing. No he was just rude and he cost his company a $50K sale. At no point will my wife and I do business with that Alfa dealer until it changes hands again. And, at the rate they are going that won't be long.

Criswell Alfa Romeo on the other hand was delightful, helpful, charming and treated my wife like a princess. What happened? She bought the 2019 Stelvio Ti Sport. James Tan, if you are out there reading this... +++++!!!!:love:
 

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I'm sure a bunch of different SUV models will appeal to a much wider audience. And of course those who just want the badge.

Cheers

PS>> Thankfully Lotus still exists (and they dont have to sell shared-platform-SUVs to justify making a sports car)
 

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1. They are phasing out technology developed by and for Alfa Romeo (Giorgio) (And not getting Alfa to develop anything new)
2. The head of design has been replaced (because as we all know, design is what was holding Alfa Romeo back /sarcasm)
3. They will be using PSA platforms/technologies in products which carry the Alfa Romeo badge.
4. They will be manufacturing Alfas outside Italy
The four issues you highlighted are a concern. But to me, electric is a much bigger concern but it is also a concern for Porsche and all other sports car makers. The 718 will be all-electric and many (me included) are up in arms that the weight will balloon from 3,000 pounds to 3,650 (likely more when final).

Not sure any brand will retain its historical cache once they become all electric. Lotus is giving a final ICE hurrah with the Emira. Maybe we are like thourough-bred horse owners in 1910 bemoaning the loss of our revered method of transport.
 

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I'm sure a bunch of different SUV models will appeal to a much wider audience. And of course those who just want the badge.

Cheers

PS>> Thankfully Lotus still exists (and they dont have to sell shared-platform-SUVs to justify making a sports car)
Do tell;
At the 2010 Paris Motor-show, Lotus announced five new models to be introduced over the next five years: Their intention was to replace the Elise with an entirely different model, as well as to introduce two entirely new sports coupes, which would have been known as the Elite and the Elan, a new sports saloon, the Eterne, to rival the Aston Martin Rapide and Maserati Quattroporte, and a modern interpretation of the Esprit supercar.
It became apparent in July 2012 that the firm's financial difficulties had made this plan impossible to implement, and initially all but the Esprit project were cancelled. Subsequently, the Esprit project was also cancelled.
Lotus also showed an unnamed city car concept using its 1.2L range-extender engine. In 2011, Lotus revealed this as the Lotus Ethos, a plug-in hybrid car based on the EMAS concept from its parent company Proton, and likely to be primarily built by Proton in Malaysia. This car has also been cancelled.
Lotus CEO at the time Jean Marc Gales confirmed in 2017 that development of an SUV is currently under way, after the company was acquired by the Chinese automotive manufacturer, Geely.
In July 2019 Lotus revealed the Evija, a 1470 kW (2000 PS; 1970 hp) and 1700 Nm (1254 lb ft) electric supercar.
In January 2021, Lotus teased that the Elise, Exige, and Evora will be discontinued and be replaced by the Type 131 which had yet to be released at the time of announcement. In July 2021, Lotus revealed that this new model will be called Emira.
 

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The four issues you highlighted are a concern. But to me, electric is a much bigger concern but it is also a concern for Porsche and all other sports car makers. The 718 will be all-electric and many (me included) are up in arms that the weight will balloon from 3,000 pounds to 3,650 (likely more when final).

Not sure any brand will retain its historical cache once they become all electric. Lotus is giving a final ICE hurrah with the Emira. Maybe we are like thourough-bred horse owners in 1910 bemoaning the loss of our revered method of transport.
The ICE vs EV issue is a whole other debate. I have no issue with EVs, i have issue with mandates banning ICE. If EVs are as great as they claim, consumers will pick them over ICE in the marketplace. IMHO

"Platform sharing"..... how many Alfa/Maserati/Fiat platforms will be adopted by the PSA brands? Giorgio has been called "best in class", right? So get PSA to start using it. Fair?

I'm fine with "shared technology" .... batteries, engines, motors..... however i draw the line at "platform", specifically platform(s) developed/engineered by a non-Italian-economy-brand replacing a purpose-built-best-in-class platform (with former Ferrari guys).

Peugeot vs Ferrari. Do you want a Ferrari for the price of a BMW, or a Peugeot for the price of an Alfa Romeo? IMHO
 

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Wholeheartedly agree on not mandating EV. But in reality the new AR head said they'll be all-electric by 2027. So we'll get an ICE Tonale almost assuredly but then the electric onslaught likely begins. Time is ticking. The tweener years of 2022 to 2026 are just that.
 

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I keep hearing complaints about the Peugeot replacing the "best in class Alfa platform" but no one has stated the obvious... How long can/could or would Giorgio have been the best? Without sales there is no money for development. If you doubt that look at the new Supra/BMW. Was that necessary? For Toyota? If Toyota had to team with BMW for ANY reason where does Alfa stand? I'm not a fan of ANY SUV but the Stelvio is sitting in my driveway because it is an Alfa, not because it was the best, most luxurious, or whatever else they are. Wife wanted an Alfa and she likes to sit up high and Alfa offered her what se wanted. So let's give them a chance... The Alpine sure proved they can build a small GT car.
 

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For me an Alfa has unique and capable driving dynamics, cutting edge technology and beautiful designs. They have stubbornly Italian features. 4C fits this definition as does a Stelvio that is fit for a different purpose. Would be nice if Alfa would expand their presence in Motorsports besides sponsoring Sauber. One of my best Alfa memories is watching Fangio drive the Type 159 Alfetta F1 championship car at Laguna Seca in 1984. Every Alfa should have some of that DNA.
 

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Ya' know, you have managed to take both sides of the argument;) The 8c and the TZ-3 were just other cars re-badged, which to me is why they are not impressive or special, but as I asked before what is it that we are afraid of losing with the change in ownership and French management? Is what an Alfa is supposed to be embodied by the 8Cs of the 1930s, the 1900s of pre and post WWII or the "bread and butter" Giuliettas and Giulias and the following models? Does the Alfaness end at some point in time or does it continue through the line of change and development? Is a Tipo 916 or a 164 a real Alfa because it shares a platform with another car and is front wheel drive? I think there answer to all of these questions is yes, these are all Alfas.

Here is the list of our current Alfas;
1951 AR-51
1957 750 Series Giulietta Spider
1965 Giulia Spider
1965 Giulia Spider Veloce
1969 1750 Spider
1973 GTV (X2)
1979 Alfetta Coupe
1985 GTV-6
1987 Spider Veloce
1991 164S
2016 4C Spider
2019 Stelvio Ti
Thirteen cars which other than a basic logo and grill shape share what in common? Yes, mechanically seven of them are essentially identical but is that good, bad or is that the Alfaness? It spans almost of half a century of change and constant. I remember telling a close friend as he was driving the Stelvio that it had the same engine as his 1991 Spider, a DOHC, fuel injected, 2.0 liter four cylinder. He pushed down hard on the gas and was stunned when the 2-ton Stelvio laid it ears back and made a mad a rush for the horizon.

Yes, the cars are going to have to share components and the necessities of economics are going to drive most of the decisions but let us hope that it isn't the death knell of things like the 4C. Let us also hope that the cars will retain some individuality (Alfaness?) otherwise they may as well be badge engineered specials. The problem I saw/see it what is available and what is done with what is available. The Stelvio and the Giulia shared the same platform and sales weren't what they wanted... Why? Well IMO they didn't offer enough variety. The Stelvio and it's various packages were fine, the 4C was a great (if somewhat impractical) halo car but the Giulia was meeh!

Want to fix the Giulia, let's broaden the line-up. 4 cylinder versions; two door coupe, two door convertible, with Veloce and Ti option packages. Now you have four cars with different flavors plus the four-door versions. A two door Giulia convertible would have been new in my driveway the day it arrived at the dealer as my daily driver instead of my SL500. Shift to the V-6 and do the same things, two door coupe and convertible versions...

I've put several hundred miles on our "new" Stelvio and I can't figure out - other than the grill and the logos - what about it is Alfa. I remarked a couple of years ago as my wife and I drove through a summer rain shower on the way to an Alfa Club event that we were dry, the A/C had the inside of the car nice and cool, the windshield was clear and the car wasn't going to dissolve into a pile of ferrous oxide due to exposure to water and yet we were still in an Alfa Spider (the 4C). Will miracles never cease!

With regard to cachet maybe you should take a look at a 12 Cylinder Volkswagen Phaeton. Everything but the body sure looks like a Bentley to me, which is probably why they couldn't give them away. But here is a serious problem that Alfa faces, it's clientele. Alfa has always been a presence in Europe but we had a generation of no Alfa. Today's buyers see Alfa as just another alternative to an Audi, Merc, BMW, Lexus or Infiniti, not some high-line Italian exotic car. Therein lies the rub. Which image is Alfa going to portray? Until my wife bought the Stelvio I would not have considered the Giulia. If I wanted a four door sedan I probably would have bought Toyota or if I got it for esoteric reasons, a Jag. Now, after driving the Stelvio I'm looking to replace the SL with a Giulia or since the announcement of a new model every year, whatever may be forthcoming.

One thing I do totally disagree with you on is what happened a century ago having no bearing on today. That is exactly 180 degrees out. What happened 100 years ago is EXACTLY what the brand needs to become again. They need to change, adapt and take the lead in automotive technology and style and let the world beat the path to them to get something they can't get anywhere else. And right now Stelantis is perfectly positioned to use all of their assets to make that a reality. We as customers need to be willing to embrace the "new" Alfa Romeos and evaluate it for what it is, not what is was or what the individual pieces came from. Remember, Alfa Romeo made sports cars from four door sedans.
Show me your Alfa tattoo
 
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