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Just forced myself to watch the first race of the 2020 V8 Supercars series. Got to say what was the point? After the announcement that GM is abandoning all RHD markets it gave me the emptiest of feelings. Simply no future and no relevance. You can’t even buy a new V8 Commodore so they are racing a car that doesn’t exist even in name. Yes, I’m bitterly disappointed in GM’s inward looking treachery towards our market. Couldn’t even stick a couple of turbos on their V6 Opel (badged Commodore) to make a performance model. Lazy mongrels. They killed Saab, screwed Alfa, now killed Holden....sorry about Pontiac too. The current management need a rocket under ‘em or put up against a wall....Hopefully HSV will be able to import the new C8 Corvette and turn them to RHD locally as happens with the Camaro. They’ll be no bargain here.
 

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Simple - just stop driving on the wrong side of the road, and the world’s your oyster.
:ROFLMAO: :D :ROFLMAO:

Seriously, though, sad that the sun is going down on the Holden monicker. We didn’t get the badge in North America, but the cars came over as the Pontiac G6 and G8 (and probably others).

Other than these cars, which are now extinct, and the Camaro and Corvette, GM is not responsible for much in the way of automotive excitement these days. Mainly overpriced, under-built urban assault vehicles and trucks, with some fairly crap cars mixed in there as well. You will probably look more to Japan to replace these, which isn’t a totally bad thing. At least you know they win’t axe RHD models!
 

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Its not corporate management to blame. They are just doing their job. They answer to boards or shareholders or get fired.
These cars are being consigned to the history books by green legislation, carbon emissions regulations, governments and activists. For good or ill, that is the situation. Authorities in many markets are making it economically impossible to make V8 saloons and coupes.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Simple - just stop driving on the wrong side of the road, and the world’s your oyster.
:ROFLMAO: :D :ROFLMAO:

Seriously, though, sad that the sun is going down on the Holden monicker. We didn’t get the badge in North America, but the cars came over as the Pontiac G6 and G8 (and probably others).

Other than these cars, which are now extinct, and the Camaro and Corvette, GM is not responsible for much in the way of automotive excitement these days. Mainly overpriced, under-built urban assault vehicles and trucks, with some fairly crap cars mixed in there as well. You will probably look more to Japan to replace these, which isn’t a totally bad thing. At least you know they win’t axe RHD models!
GM killed Holden long ago by mostly rebadging cheap Korean rubbish (Daewos). The base 1.8litre normal aspirated engine they used in the Cruz and Trax was rubbish. I travelled a few thousand km in one while over in NZ a few years ago. It didn’t like to rev, was harsh and noisy (in a bad way). They didn’t respond to Fords’ Ranger and Raptor, didn’t keep the faithful satisfied with a performance Commodore and their SUVs are just plain ugly. An irrelevant model lineup. Basically a textbook study of how to alienate their core market and kill a brand.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Its not corporate management to blame. They are just doing their job. They answer to boards or shareholders or get fired.
These cars are being consigned to the history books by green legislation, carbon emissions regulations, governments and activists. For good or ill, that is the situation. Authorities in many markets are making it economically impossible to make V8 saloons and coupes.
The Opel on which the Commodore is based is a good car. GM sold Opel without a thought to what would happen here. Or maybe they did, but didn’t care. What they could have done is made a V6 turbo performance model for the motor heads and put the wagon model on stilts as an alternative to the SUVs. They didn’t and the new Commodore sales tanked. GM are looking only at China and their home market in the US. Good luck with that. I’m sure the Chinese will make it easy for them.
 

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In fairness GM sold Opel out of necessity.
It was a bit of brinksmanship with the German government, but Merkle could not have it both ways. Participate in the bailout, or lose the production.
 

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their SUVs are just plain ugly.
Yeah I can’t understand what they were thinking with the Acadia for example. What horrendously dated and confused styling for 2019. It doesn’t have any real standout features and in some ways is behind the competition- why bother? Same applies to Equinox.
 

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Yeah I can’t understand what they were thinking with the Acadia for example. What horrendously dated and confused styling for 2019. It doesn’t have any real standout features and in some ways is behind the competition- why bother? Same applies to Equinox.
Can't agree on Acadia or Equinox...my wife has a 2018 Acadia Denali and loves it....especially since we got a huge discount since her father retired as a top executive at GM. The Equinox has been a big seller for them. Just because someone doesn't like it doesn't make it a bad car. Lots of people also don't like ALFAs...for the same reason... prejudice against the brand or country of origin.
 

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Just forced myself to watch the first race of the 2020 V8 Supercars series. Got to say what was the point? After the announcement that GM is abandoning all RHD markets it gave me the emptiest of feelings. Simply no future and no relevance. You can’t even buy a new V8 Commodore so they are racing a car that doesn’t exist even in name. Yes, I’m bitterly disappointed in GM’s inward looking treachery towards our market. Couldn’t even stick a couple of turbos on their V6 Opel (badged Commodore) to make a performance model. Lazy mongrels. They killed Saab, screwed Alfa, now killed Holden....sorry about Pontiac too. The current management need a rocket under ‘em or put up against a wall....Hopefully HSV will be able to import the new C8 Corvette and turn them to RHD locally as happens with the Camaro. They’ll be no bargain here.
How did GM screw ALFA....Chrysler is their partner not GM ?
I think we are blaming companies for eliminating various cars and focusing on SUVs and pickups. The companies have to do that because the taste of buyers (at least in the US) have turned away from traditional cars. Sam goes for sports cars as all companies like ALFA, BMW, Porsche have to rely on SUV sales to support their lagging sports car sales. I don't know the state of Australian car business but I thought that Ford was the primary American company there. Was Holden Ford or GM based?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Can't agree on Acadia or Equinox...my wife has a 2018 Acadia Denali and loves it....especially since we got a huge discount since her father retired as a top executive at GM. The Equinox has been a big seller for them. Just because someone doesn't like it doesn't make it a bad car. Lots of people also don't like ALFAs...for the same reason... prejudice against the brand or country of origin.
When there are lots of similar SUVs on the market people will go for either the nicest to look at or the best value. On our roads the those pair of SUVs look a little out of place Compared to offerings from Mazda, Toyota, Land Rover BMW, Merc etc. We have more European taste than US taste despite a significant muscle car culture here.
 

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Alfa was in partnership with GM for engines and shared a platform for the 159 that was too heavy. GM built the V6 block here and sent them back to Italy to have the heads added. Not built to the tolerances Alfa specified and built with elastic timing chains. Another strike for Alfa reliability.
 

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Can't agree on Acadia or Equinox...my wife has a 2018 Acadia Denali and loves it....especially since we got a huge discount since her father retired as a top executive at GM. The Equinox has been a big seller for them. Just because someone doesn't like it doesn't make it a bad car. Lots of people also don't like ALFAs...for the same reason... prejudice against the brand or country of origin.
Equinox is built up the road from me at CAMI in Ingersoll, Ontario.

But I have to admit to not being a fan. Looks very cheap in the inside and out to me. Looked at one briefly but really was underwhelmed.
I can see why you want to stick with GM for the discount, but truly there are better SUV's out there.
 

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Alfa was in partnership with GM for engines and shared a platform for the 159 that was too heavy. GM built the V6 block here and sent them back to Italy to have the heads added. Not built to the tolerances Alfa specified and built with elastic timing chains. Another strike for Alfa reliability.
That was during the "20 lost years" of ALFA absent in the US I believe.
 

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Equinox is built up the road from me at CAMI in Ingersoll, Ontario.

But I have to admit to not being a fan. Looks very cheap in the inside and out to me. Looked at one briefly but really was underwhelmed.
I can see why you want to stick with GM for the discount, but truly there are better SUV's out there.
Actually the highest rated SUV in the US are South Korean cars....the Teluride is top rated. BMW, AUDI and Land Rovers have a bad reliability problem here. The Denali versions of the Acadia is premium and lots of really nice features. I agree the lower end Equinox and equivalent Chevy are utilitarian....but they are very big sellers here. I have to appease my wife who is the GM family member but I do like the Acadia...but not the latest lower version AT4.
 

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That was during the "20 lost years" of ALFA absent in the US I believe.
...but not here. We lost Alfa for about 4 years.
Ford is doing well here because they have good products to satisfy different corners of the market. The Mustang for the Muscle Car crowd. The Ranger for the pick-up crowd. Various Focuses for the family hatch/hot hatch group.

GM took our market for granted. No performance V8...apart from a hugely expensive Camaro that the average V8 buying Commodore owner couldn’t afford. If they sold products that people wanted, they wouldn’t be in their current predicament.
Alfa ditched GM (mutual agreement) as I’m pretty sure their core company values were somewhat different having found that out after that first joint effort.

Have a look at what happened to Saab under GM stewardship. Now, but a memory.
 

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i believe GM has drunk the "Green"electric kool aid and dropping most all V-8 performance cars (Corvette excluded for the time being) as there is no next generation Camaro in the pipe line. the next 10 years in the auto industry is going to be very trying for manufacturers and buyers. .Even Ford only has a Mustang and Truck V-8. Even the mighty Ford GT is a V-6. i think i will keep my wonderful sounding V-8 Maserati Granturismo a bit longer as V-8's are being discontinued by most brands at an alarming rate.
 

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...but not here. We lost Alfa for about 4 years.
Ford is doing well here because they have good products to satisfy different corners of the market. The Mustang for the Muscle Car crowd. The Ranger for the pick-up crowd. Various Focuses for the family hatch/hot hatch group.

GM took our market for granted. No performance V8...apart from a hugely expensive Camaro that the average V8 buying Commodore owner couldn’t afford. If they sold products that people wanted, they wouldn’t be in their current predicament.
Alfa ditched GM (mutual agreement) as I’m pretty sure their core company values were somewhat different having found that out after that first joint effort.

Have a look at what happened to Saab under GM stewardship. Now, but a memory.
I can't agree that Ford and GM as well as other companies quit selling cars that people wanted. They are selling exactly exactly what the people are buying....at least here in the US. It is SUVs and trucks. When gas was in short supply or very expensive, it was small econo box cars (I was here for that). Perhaps the shift to bigger cars was due to pent up frustration with those econo box cars (which often were pretty bad as well as impractical for families).
Public taste and choice changes constantly and that is part of the difficulty of designing cars....you need a crystal ball. And the big gorilla in the mix is government push for more energy efficiency (big V8s have a problem), smog reduction, etc. Already several cities have mandated that NO IC cars will be allowed in after a specific date (think London is one) and some countries have said that NO IC powered cars can be produced after a certain date. While I love performance cars as many do....if the public won't buy them or buys them in far less numbers, there is little financial incentive to build them. And regular sedans aren't selling for the same reason. In Europe there are reasons to buy smaller cars due to their tighter roads, etc. so they can support the small car market. I love small sports cars like our 4C but that is currently a very niche market.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I can't agree that Ford and GM as well as other companies quit selling cars that people wanted. They are selling exactly exactly what the people are buying....at least here in the US. It is SUVs and trucks. When gas was in short supply or very expensive, it was small econo box cars (I was here for that). Perhaps the shift to bigger cars was due to pent up frustration with those econo box cars (which often were pretty bad as well as impractical for families).
Public taste and choice changes constantly and that is part of the difficulty of designing cars....you need a crystal ball. And the big gorilla in the mix is government push for more energy efficiency (big V8s have a problem), smog reduction, etc. Already several cities have mandated that NO IC cars will be allowed in after a specific date (think London is one) and some countries have said that NO IC powered cars can be produced after a certain date. While I love performance cars as many do....if the public won't buy them or buys them in far less numbers, there is little financial incentive to build them. And regular sedans aren't selling for the same reason. In Europe there are reasons to buy smaller cars due to their tighter roads, etc. so they can support the small car market. I love small sports cars like our 4C but that is currently a very niche market.
Bob, I understand your loyalty to GM but I’m talking about the situation in Australia. GM is ditching Oz because Aussies ditched them. They didn’t have products that Aussies wanted to buy. If they were selling up a storm they’d still be here, not as they are, killing off the Holden brand and withdrawing from Australia (apart from a small high performance arm, GM Special Vehicles, formerly Holden Special Vehicles). Ford is still here because Aussies are still buying their products. Ford has shown more respect since ceasing car manufacture so their fan-base have stayed loyal due to good product. GM, on the other hand, have not. They have been lazy in product development here. No V8 or turbo V6 performance four door sedan and better SUVs and Pickups are to be found elsewhere. Then there’s cheaply built Holden-badged Daewoos. (Hyundai and Kia are doing well here too). GM took Aussies for granted, Ford not. Ford is still here. GM are turning tail and running. After 2020, their only presence here will be niche.
There’s really nothing to discuss. GM is on the nose here. Most Aussies are disgusted with their decision and apathy...Then there’s the thousands left unemployed....
 
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