[Mankind]

I got my OEM oil changed at 1K miles. OK, I'm a early oil change advocate because that's the way I am.

All parameters good EXCEPT slightly increased dilution of oil with gasoline. Stated most likely due to excess idling. I'm not cognizant of doing so. I'm anxious to see what the next analysis shows regarding this.
BTW, I put in Amsoil 5w40 Euro Mid SAPS if anyone else is so inclined. I'm not a dealer btw. I have researched it fully, and it's C3 compliant and appropos for the C4. I will be providing the oil analysis findings when I change out the Amsoil.
BTW, I'm told the Mopar Oil is essentially Pennzoil, FWIW. I think Pennzoil makes good syn oil too. :smile2:

 

[phaphaphooey]

Did the factory fill have any special properties indicating that it was a special "break in oil" or was it just normal Mopar (Pennzoil) synthetic? Seems that most manufacturers have moved away from break in oils and just use normal fills now.

 

[Mankind]

Did the factory fill have any special properties indicating that it was a special "break in oil" or was it just normal Mopar (Pennzoil) synthetic? Seems that most manufacturers have moved away from break in oils and just use normal fills now.

It was whatever came from the factory. I have no clue as to what was put in the crankcase in Italy.

 

[Racer Z]

Keep us updated on this. Great subject.

 

[phaphaphooey]

It was whatever came from the factory. I have no clue as to what was put in the crankcase in Italy.

Depending on the lab doing the testing sometimes they comment upon the characteristics of the factory fill and its likely origin.

 

[sin city]

This is rather interesting---

http://papers.sae.org/2015-01-0967/


Turbocharged gasoline direct injection (TGDI) engines often have a flat torque curve with the maximum torque covering a wide range of engine speeds. Increasing the high-speed-end torque for a TGDI engine provides better acceleration performance to the vehicle powered by the engine. However, it also requires more fuel deliveries and thus longer injection durations at high engine speeds, for which the multiple fuel injections per cycle may not be possible.

In this study, results are reported of an experimental investigation of impact of fuel injection on dilution of the crankcase oil for a highly-boosted TGDI engine. It was found in the tests that the high-speed-end torque for the TGDI engine had a significant influence on fuel dilution: longer injection durations resulted in impingement of large liquid fuel drops on the piston top, leading to a considerable level of fuel dilution. Test results indicated that the higher the torque at the rated-power, the greater the level of fuel dilution.

In a cyclic-load engine test simulating the customer drives of a target vehicle powered by the engine, the maximum level for fuel dilution was found to be up to 9%, causing significant drop in the oil viscosity. The causes for fuel dilution and impacts of it on the oil consumption and formation of carbon deports on the piston ring area, and methods for mitigating impacts of fuel dilution are discussed in the paper.

 

[4Canada]

This is rather interesting---

http://papers.sae.org/2015-01-0967/


Turbocharged gasoline direct injection (TGDI) engines often have a flat torque curve with the maximum torque covering a wide range of engine speeds. Increasing the high-speed-end torque for a TGDI engine provides better acceleration performance to the vehicle powered by the engine. However, it also requires more fuel deliveries and thus longer injection durations at high engine speeds, for which the multiple fuel injections per cycle may not be possible.

In this study, results are reported of an experimental investigation of impact of fuel injection on dilution of the crankcase oil for a highly-boosted TGDI engine. It was found in the tests that the high-speed-end torque for the TGDI engine had a significant influence on fuel dilution: longer injection durations resulted in impingement of large liquid fuel drops on the piston top, leading to a considerable level of fuel dilution. Test results indicated that the higher the torque at the rated-power, the greater the level of fuel dilution.

In a cyclic-load engine test simulating the customer drives of a target vehicle powered by the engine, the maximum level for fuel dilution was found to be up to 9%, causing significant drop in the oil viscosity. The causes for fuel dilution and impacts of it on the oil consumption and formation of carbon deports on the piston ring area, and methods for mitigating impacts of fuel dilution are discussed in the paper.

Good find!
Got my reading cut out for me now!

EDIT: Oh, I see - abstract only, got to pay for the whole report.
Gonna have to do some more research.

 

[4Canada]

Mankind - what gasoline do you use?
Specifically, ethanol blend, or not (and if so, what blend)?

Seems that there are two issues negatively influencing fuel dilution of crankcase lubricant, which recur in a couple of the documents I've seen - cold start vaporization (likely not an issue where you live, but is for me), and Ethanol content.

 

[phaphaphooey]

I couldn't and still really cannot articulate the reasons as I am not an engineer, but it is fairly common knowledge for readers that also frequent BITOG that direct injected NA engines are fairly hard on oil and direct injected FI engines are even harder, often leading to increases in fuel dilution and oil consumption as opposing to their non DI brethren. It is nice to now know why.

 

[sptcoupe]

I've changed my oil and filter 3 times in about 10,000 miles. The first time at 2000 miles, then every four thousand miles. I will continue to do this as long as I am running the Pogea Stage 1 clone. The last two times, I changed it the day before a track day so the oil was fresh for the heavy tack day loads.


I haven't done an analysis yet, but the engine has never used any oil at all.

 

[alfaguy]

Another likely cause of fuel dilution on the factory fill, is repeated starting of the engine for short periods, such as moving the car short distances, on and off the cargo ship, transporters, dealership, etc.

Repeated cold starts without running the car long enough to reach operating temperature will cause increased fuel dilution of the oil.

It will be interesting to see the test results at the next oil change.

Jeff

 

[Mankind]

This is rather interesting---

http://papers.sae.org/2015-01-0967/


Turbocharged gasoline direct injection (TGDI) engines often have a flat torque curve with the maximum torque covering a wide range of engine speeds. Increasing the high-speed-end torque for a TGDI engine provides better acceleration performance to the vehicle powered by the engine. However, it also requires more fuel deliveries and thus longer injection durations at high engine speeds, for which the multiple fuel injections per cycle may not be possible.

In this study, results are reported of an experimental investigation of impact of fuel injection on dilution of the crankcase oil for a highly-boosted TGDI engine. It was found in the tests that the high-speed-end torque for the TGDI engine had a significant influence on fuel dilution: longer injection durations resulted in impingement of large liquid fuel drops on the piston top, leading to a considerable level of fuel dilution. Test results indicated that the higher the torque at the rated-power, the greater the level of fuel dilution.

In a cyclic-load engine test simulating the customer drives of a target vehicle powered by the engine, the maximum level for fuel dilution was found to be up to 9%, causing significant drop in the oil viscosity. The causes for fuel dilution and impacts of it on the oil consumption and formation of carbon deports on the piston ring area, and methods for mitigating impacts of fuel dilution are discussed in the paper.

That's very interesting. My dilution was only slightly elevated, but that might go a long way toward explaining the dilution factor i got. I seldom idle the Alfa, and I go on no trips less than 7 miles, mostly at road speed. I wonder if this has implications on choice of oil viscosity?

 

[Mankind]

Another likely cause of fuel dilution on the factory fill, is repeated starting of the engine for short periods, such as moving the car short distances, on and off the cargo ship, transporters, dealership, etc.

Repeated cold starts without running the car long enough to reach operating temperature will cause increased fuel dilution of the oil.

It will be interesting to see the test results at the next oil change.

Jeff

Thanks. None of those apply to me. I'll follow it closely and report back.

 

[Mankind]

Unbranded mostly

Mankind - what gasoline do you use?
Specifically, ethanol blend, or not (and if so, what blend)?

Seems that there are two issues negatively influencing fuel dilution of crankcase lubricant, which recur in a couple of the documents I've seen - cold start vaporization (likely not an issue where you live, but is for me), and Ethanol content.

I have only put 100% gasoline in the 4C. There are two reputable stations in the area which have 100% gasoline, octane rating 93. I run 100% gasoline in my two Hyundais ( 5.0 GDI, normally aspitated), but I can use 87 or higher in them. No, cold starts aren't a big issue here yet I assiduously avoid ethanol gasoline if I can. I even use the Pure Gas app on the iphone for trips, which has been decent in accuracy for such stations and fuel on the road. HTH. Thanks for the suggestion too.

 

[alfaguy]

Thanks. None of those apply to me. I'll follow it closely and report back.

No, but my point was that you don't know how often the car was started, stopped, and idled for how long between the time it left the factory with fresh oil and the time you actually took delivery.

Jeff

 

[4Canada]

Excellent thread, with good information.

I do this with our heavy equipment all the time, as it provides good advance information as to what is going on / potentially failing inside the engine.
Although I had never considered doing it with a vehicle, especially not one as new as the Alfa. I might in this case just to see what it turns up.
Pencil shavings, one would presume!

Not having a benchmark for the 4C factory oil, or any brand new vehicle, we don't really even know if this is normal, do we?
Jeff's hypothesis could have a lot to do with it.
I now recall at delivery, being told not to excessively idle or rev the car at standstill. Perhaps this is why. I never asked the reason, but I will.

 

[alfaguy]

I now recall at delivery, being told not to excessively idle or rev the car at standstill. Perhaps this is why. I never asked the reason, but I will.

Typically the reason most mfr's say not to let an engine idle from cold to warm up, is because of increased emissions. By actually driving the car from a cold start, the engine comes up to temperature faster, thereby going into closed loop sooner and reducing emissions.

It's also not a good idea to start a car (especially in cold weather) from cold, move it and shut it right off, such as moving it out of and into a garage.

Do this repeatedly a few times, you wash the cylinders down with fuel, dilute the oil, and load up the plugs. As good as modern engine management systems have become, an internal combustion engine still requires cold start enrichment to start and run acceptably well.

Jeff

 

[foleydb]

So the idea of trying 100% gas in my 4C immediately jumped to mind as I read the above. A quick check with Mr. Google revealed the following site with lists and maps of all stations that sell 100% gas in the U.S.

http://pure-gas.org/?stateprov=VA

When I checked the map I found a giant blank spot around the Washington DC metro area. WTF?

The red tab is me.

 

[heelntoe]

The red tab is me.

You've lost weight.

 

[Mankind]

No, but my point was that you don't know how often the car was started, stopped, and idled for how long between the time it left the factory with fresh oil and the time you actually took delivery.

Jeff

True. Excellent point !