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Lol it's just the state of media here, ignore it. My all American group makes for A FLEET of race cars both decommissioned and active all over the place and only one "fix it" ticket from the local PD a while back to a front fender exiting straight piped Gen2 Viper. EPA isn't a threat to any vehicular enthusiasm at least in Florida.

What "aftermarket" vendors need to read up on is FAKE parts. Please realize China, the people who make these parts at such a scale and cost to their/our environment, crap all over say, K&N's "legal papers" so they must resolve such control over their distribution so that "K+N" doesn't sell you the same or similar filter at a price that didn't include the research, development, quality, etc that K&N had to invest to get the part to exist in the first place, and on the back of a US-based and formed and invented marketplace. You also can't blame "the evil EPA" (btw, a bunch of average, got-their-start-in-the-car-industry Americans at a day job trying to do their best, not volcano-lurking lizard overlords or a board of evil doing the bidding of the nemesis to James Bond) for random people trying to make a street car something it is not, or for the pressure the department gets from the retrograde circus that Washington DC has been since I've graduated middle school: It's just one of the many semi-failing departments that make up the USA "conservative-when-convenient" idiot megasloth. At least our system works okay compared, and we can drive cars like these without having killed or robbed anyone, and can work towards things without too much interference. The people that kill and rob here are one of two types: those that learn how the prison system will never let you be free again because they killed/stole too small, and those that learn the world and space is theirs because they killed/stole so unimaginably wholesale.
I’m sorry, but you are WRONG. THIS WILL DESTROY THE AFTERMARKET.



WELL EXPLAINED HERE.

others ask how the sale can be blocked. It can easily. If a road car an not be taken “off road” then no emissions modifying parts can be sold.

It has been bounced for years, but now action is being taken.

Ask farmers how free they are to work on or modify their tractors.

It is chipping g away at our freedoms and livelihood.
 

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This has been a thing long before the current regime.

Personally, I think there should be some better laws in place. Those diesels rolling coal should be banned.
This "regime "is talking about a tax based on the miles you travel with your car .....if you ask how , every year you inspect your Car in NY it records your mileage thats how you see stuff in car fax ,so there is a way . The last regime recorded lowest emissions with less regulations ...
 

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This "regime "is talking about a tax based on the miles you travel with your car .....if you ask how , every year you inspect your Car in NY it records your mileage thats how you see stuff in car fax ,so there is a way . The last regime recorded lowest emissions with less regulations ...
"Timing" does not necessarily equate with "causality".

Without trying to get political here, this is just plain factually incorrect. Please consider that the reduction in emissions (across the board, not just vehicles) experienced in the last 4 years in the USA was largely due to three factors.

First, the efforts of the federal government for the previous 8 years paying off as they put the nation on course to meet their Paris Accord obligations, as well as State efforts (California CARB still drives pretty much all of North American auto emissions). Coal phase-out was a major one. There are about half the number of coal-fired generating plants operating in the USA today compared to 2002. Most of that was done/planned prior to 2016. These things take time.

Second, was a greater adoption of new technologies. Things like electric cars, though a small effect, started to attain decent penetration as the technology became more affordable.

Third is COVID-19. The US manufacturing took a major hit. In China, where they locked down for 8 or 9 weeks (welded doors shut, not what you call “lockdown”), they recovered to 2019 emissions within a few months thereafter. The US has barely now returned to pre-COVID emissions. Canada's recovery is not much better, if at all, so I have no pulpit to preach from here.

115993
 

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"Timing" does not necessarily equate with "causality".

Without trying to get political here, this is just plain factually incorrect. Please consider that the reduction in emissions (across the board, not just vehicles) experienced in the last 4 years in the USA was largely due to three factors.

First, the efforts of the federal government for the previous 8 years paying off as they put the nation on course to meet their Paris Accord obligations, as well as State efforts (California CARB still drives pretty much all of North American auto emissions). Coal phase-out was a major one. There are about half the number of coal-fired generating plants operating in the USA today compared to 2002. Most of that was done/planned prior to 2016. These things take time.

Second, was a greater adoption of new technologies. Things like electric cars, though a small effect, started to attain decent penetration as the technology became more affordable.

Third is COVID-19. The US manufacturing took a major hit. In China, where they locked down for 8 or 9 weeks (welded doors shut, not what you call “lockdown”), they recovered to 2019 emissions within a few months thereafter. The US has barely now returned to pre-COVID emissions. Canada's recovery is not much better, if at all, so I have no pulpit to preach from here.

View attachment 115993
Explain why our countries have to meet these standards(pairs accords) but china and india do not for another 10 years .....china will eat both of our lunches, its coming .
A large amount of coal (energy) is used to produce an electric car also .
The emmisions ....covid most likely did cause that lesser amount achieved under the last admin , i will agree with you there . However in my opinion none of these regulations this country takes on is shortening the duration of this planet . Mother nature will do what it wants history shows that .
 

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Nature does do wonderful things.
One thing to note is that "the world won't end" because of emissions or anything else we can do to it (or it can do to itself for that matter).
"Civilization" - well, the jury is still out on that one.
Won't happen today or next week, and when it does it is likely to be slow and painful, but it's almost self-assured.
I won't be around anymore to worry about it.
And I frankly doubt that even if everyone in North America put on a 200 cell cat, it would make a whole lot of difference.
 

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I’m sorry, but you are WRONG. THIS WILL DESTROY THE AFTERMARKET.



WELL EXPLAINED HERE.

others ask how the sale can be blocked. It can easily. If a road car an not be taken “off road” then no emissions modifying parts can be sold.

It has been bounced for years, but now action is being taken.

Ask farmers how free they are to work on or modify their tractors.

It is chipping g away at our freedoms and livelihood.
Seems like the big guys have you by the balls, then, huh? Listen, fellow Alfisti, you're writing to a dude in Florida that knows a great deal of people, how things work, and am quite astute - I'm not wrong, simply an accurate viewpoint (but lazily typed here, a car forum btw). Anger pedaling is the name of the game and you're angry and of course our resident "republicans" will doggie pile as expected. Your attitude is exactly the lever some of my circles use to make you say the crap you say and fear the crap you fear. Relax: the end is not nigh and Democrats aren't any more evil than every other political lobster in the boiling pot squealing for attention. A major change in money is afoot, values are all over the place, the "pump" of anything from Bitcoin to your favorite/hated stock to your Social Security has been perfected, and this EPA thing come around again will face the immortal counterbalance history/wisdom/a few more years will teach you:

There has always been and will always be Resistance to everything.

The US government is a sloth, and always will be. Anyone preaching or promising anything else, especially revolution and inciting you to terrorize your own neighbors, wants to rob you blind because you obviously never looked up "the Charleston shuffle" and fall for the same game with a different name over and over since Nixon. Farmers aside (in Florida, farmers sold out to developers laughing to the bank and car dealerships because a blight caused entirely by popularly staunchly republican areas/landowners, monsanto/cheney/etc, and even the farmers themselves wiped out Florida's ability to make oranges, which then went bankrupt/got bailouts/sold to international investors... LOL), us Alfa Romeo 4c owners will be able to modify whatever we want, and we will continue to enjoy this until our fuel prices will make us really want to convert to a powerful EV drivetrain, or use the 1.75L as a range extender. I'd love to see (and fight against! Fun!) the clone army of lizard drones that will be responsible for "taking our cars and guns and whatever"... Too much Star Wars/Fox News dude. That fantasy is on no one's actual radar in DC, despite what they say and slander to give media the levers they need to make movements out of some person talking at a microphone. Don't be so gullible for something best used for selling chinese sourced tshirts merely printed in America.

Now, if you're on here talking about 2023 and later Alfa Romeos... Well, maybe you might want to step up and vote this law issue whatever way you feel it needs to go. Forwarding a youtube video won't help you make the changes you want anymore btw.

Either way, our (US) freedoms and livelihoods have nothing to do w the soon-to-die-maybe EPA... It has to do with rolling up our sleeves and manufacturing like the silent generation did, but a whole new suite of things that are largely sustainable, globally effective, and responsibly innovative. No more puttering around town with convenient devices we had other people make and maintain for us, yelling at Televisions (they aren't telephones to a senator, guys), and blaming see saw partisan politics as the "evil other". It's fellow Americans versus the real other, the government needing to take back control of the economy, and versus the other, other, the corporations that lobby a nasty game of hardball.

Don't get angry and loud, as that's exactly what the other two want, instead, get moving, and quietly. The system here works still, so use it. Your money still holds weight, so move it. Your words though, your facebook, your vehement opinion, well... The FBI is listening, smiling.
 

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I will disagree on the democrats not being evil

Open boarders- the boarder surge is up 60 % , all caveats set from last administration were terminated which is creating the surge . forcing this many people in to red state Texas will change voting demographic for good . why do you think people are fleeing democratic run states to places like Florida and south Dakota .

Raising taxes ,individual and corporate-----its coming

identity politics - what happened to all men are created equal and should be judged by the content of their character ?

Hr1 is designed to eliminate a states rights to regulate elections --all mail in ballots with no ID or way to check them under the guise of voter suppression because they say let me quote "African American individuals aren't capable of sourcing an ID ". which me and my African American family members take offense to . as should any person of color.

Every democratic state is run like garbage and inundated with crime. which as a detective i see everyday with no bail laws which effect law abiding tax paying normal citizens everyday . criminals get out and re-commit the same crimes becuse there is no recourse . shootings are up 140 % in my city as the defund the police movement makes us all unsafe.

Gas prices are going up , jobs are being lost to fictional solar powered jobs that do not exist.

3 trillion dollar so called covid bill which only 9% went to covid relief --- that's future tax money we will have to pay back as inflation will start to sore and interest rates go up to try and componsate. other moneys going to places like Pakistan at 70 million for gender studies .....(not to difficulty man and woman) , now save that money and provide beds for homeless AMERICANS .... READ THESE BILLS EDUCATE YOURSELVES ,

The democratic party is the party of hypocrisy , look at the filibusterer that they are trying to get rid of becuse they are in power , mean while each and everyone one of them can be found saying we need to protect the filibuster just a couple of years back . look on you tube you'll find it , same with voter id laws. the Democrats used the fillabuster 362 times to stop republican controlled laws from being passed .

Democrats are in for power DON'T BE A USEFUL IDIOT
 

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I will disagree on the democrats not being evil

Open boarders- the boarder surge is up 60 % , all caveats set from last administration were terminated which is creating the surge . forcing this many people in to red state Texas will change voting demographic for good . why do you think people are fleeing democratic run states to places like Florida and south Dakota .

Raising taxes ,individual and corporate-----its coming

identity politics - what happened to all men are created equal and should be judged by the content of their character ?

Hr1 is designed to eliminate a states rights to regulate elections --all mail in ballots with no ID or way to check them under the guise of voter suppression because they say let me quote "African American individuals aren't capable of sourcing an ID ". which me and my African American family members take offense to . as should any person of color.

Every democratic state is run like garbage and inundated with crime. which as a detective i see everyday with no bail laws which effect law abiding tax paying normal citizens everyday . criminals get out and re-commit the same crimes becuse there is no recourse . shootings are up 140 % in my city as the defund the police movement makes us all unsafe.

Gas prices are going up , jobs are being lost to fictional solar powered jobs that do not exist.

3 trillion dollar so called covid bill which only 9% went to covid relief --- that's future tax money we will have to pay back as inflation will start to sore and interest rates go up to try and componsate. other moneys going to places like Pakistan at 70 million for gender studies .....(not to difficulty man and woman) , now save that money and provide beds for homeless AMERICANS .... READ THESE BILLS EDUCATE YOURSELVES ,

The democratic party is the party of hypocrisy , look at the filibusterer that they are trying to get rid of becuse they are in power , mean while each and everyone one of them can be found saying we need to protect the filibuster just a couple of years back . look on you tube you'll find it , same with voter id laws. the Democrats used the fillabuster 362 times to stop republican controlled laws from being passed .

Democrats are in for power DON'T BE A USEFUL IDIOT
Jeez, and all in eight weeks. 😁 Now, what was the question?
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
All us outsiders can do is sit back and watch it unfold for our brothers down south. If I was in the USA I would be making my congress rep's phones ring off the hook daily.

This is a great example showing the biggest problem with our fight for climate change are those making the changes have no qualifications.
 

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OriginalForza

you are absolutely right about how to deal with this, but it should be on the radar of more people. Im not angry, but to deny this is an issue is worng. shops are being investigated and fined, manufacturers are tightening who can sell and install their products to protect themselves. The hand held tuning industry is under pressure. The end is not neigh, but without us suing our "voice" it could be the beginning of the end.

The issue being addressed here absolutly does effect our ability to modify and enjoy the cars we have now. If they uphold their interpretation, the manufactures (mostly small buisnesses) will shut down if you can not sell a modified turbo, or an open element air filter, or even a larger intercooler.

Ill stay out of the political affiliation side of this, as this started under the previous administrations, and is as much about the way our agencies opperate. It does move slow, however outlawing modification of production vehicles will have long lasting effects. The EPA interpretation on this issue could even be carried over to electric and alt fuel vehicle modification. Also, GM is trying to legally lock you out of making any changes to your vehicle, and people are not paying attention.

To me this worries me that we are normalizing allowing government agencies to interpret how they want to enforce the laws passed by congress, then they are able to change their interpretation at whim. (look at the current mess with the BATF applying the label machine gun to anything they do not like)
 

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All of this doesn't sound that crazy to me. In Portugal it is illegal to modify your vehicle if it changes the characteristics of the car as it left the factory.
To do such modifications, they need to be tested by a road safety laboratory and then registered on the title of the car.
There's also only currently one or two of these road safety laboratories and they charge a small fortune to perform these tests.

To give you idea. To put bigger tyres in my wrangler, I had to get a declaration from the manufacturer that they would be safe to use, the biggest tyre FCA is willing to declare as safe is a 265/70/18.

If you want to go wider than 265, you need to pay 300 euros for the test.

I can understand the point of these rules but they are indeed extremely annoying and restrictive. But at the same time, they protect us from dangerous mods who make vehicles unsafe for the road. Where do you draw the line though?
 

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OriginalForza

you are absolutely right about how to deal with this, but it should be on the radar of more people. Im not angry, but to deny this is an issue is worng. shops are being investigated and fined, manufacturers are tightening who can sell and install their products to protect themselves. The hand held tuning industry is under pressure. The end is not neigh, but without us suing our "voice" it could be the beginning of the end.

The issue being addressed here absolutly does effect our ability to modify and enjoy the cars we have now. If they uphold their interpretation, the manufactures (mostly small buisnesses) will shut down if you can not sell a modified turbo, or an open element air filter, or even a larger intercooler.

Ill stay out of the political affiliation side of this, as this started under the previous administrations, and is as much about the way our agencies opperate. It does move slow, however outlawing modification of production vehicles will have long lasting effects. The EPA interpretation on this issue could even be carried over to electric and alt fuel vehicle modification. Also, GM is trying to legally lock you out of making any changes to your vehicle, and people are not paying attention.

To me this worries me that we are normalizing allowing government agencies to interpret how they want to enforce the laws passed by congress, then they are able to change their interpretation at whim. (look at the current mess with the BATF applying the label machine gun to anything they do not like)
Here we go! This is more like it... It is certainly a mess (when isn't it?) And the layers and layers of onion make us all want to cry being around such half assed implementations of ideas. Bipartisanship aside and left out for maybe another forum, the EPA and how we are "legally" able to keep our cars running is definitely not a simple one. Because of this, I'm pointing out here that many associations and businesses are boots on ground fighting the good fight, as well as politicians in all "three" major parties being reasonably "woke" to what major problems for us constituents will later hopefully punish them for letting through. Too many interested and hung on the fiscal income on keeping us enabled with multiple options when keeping pur cars running in any state of tune or "level of race spec". GM is being GM in that they are looking to eat up their own aftermarket, much like Ford and the Bronco partnering with the major distributors like an umbrella corporation type thing.

Google "AC Delco made in china lawsuit" and you'll see that some of these 100% American companies aren't as patriotic nor as "100%" as you might have still believed... Competition gets ugly on a long enough time frame.

So bringing forth what some are doing and what it may mean is one thing, but being vehement or partisan about it is what HASN'T BEEN WORKING. We gotta work together, let competition stay pure and uncriminal/ethical, and not need to agree - just push the Democratic (not the party, the Greek Form) Power in us all.
 

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All us outsiders can do is sit back and watch it unfold for our brothers down south. If I was in the USA I would be making my congress rep's phones ring off the hook daily.

This is a great example showing the biggest problem with our fight for climate change are those making the changes have no qualifications.
Our house of representatives actually have had a "customer service" system for decades now to basically ignore citizen mail and calls... Privatization is also a mindset! To move amd be heard you gotta mingle and ask, not too unlike the Medieval courts actually...
 

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Has anyone been following what the EPA has been doing?

Seems a little crazy and far reaching.

I have a friend in the USA that has been audited by the EPA twice and they are going after tuners and performance part makers, but essentially they would make it impossible to sell performance parts.
If you arrive in Newport RI running straight pipes, its $1,000. So I don't drive one of my cars in Newport RI!!
 

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How can they legally ban product sales?
Many different ways. Think "mandate vs. requirement". More than one way to boil an egg. The biggest lobbyist wins.

Think of where the US is currently as nation. Pharma are the biggest lobbyists in DC.
 

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I'm curious what the oil industry is planning with all this electrification going on.
 
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