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If your car has been de-catted and it does the pops and bangs, your technician will know when you pull up in the driveway that the car is not standard, even if he's only ever heard one at a distance - tuned cars with modified exhausts sound very different. And if they are deaf, the stinky exhaust will be another give-away clue.

So yes, you will give the workshop reason to void your warranty IF the mods that you have done could be the cause of any item you are claiming under warranty. Your warranty will still be fine for other non-related items (for example a faulty window mechanism).

Most of the guys with tuned ECU's will keep their old standard ECU and drop that back in when returning their car to an Alfa workshop if the car is still in warranty.

Having said that, you are taking it there to get the battery checked and the codes cleared.

If this is your only ECU, then you will have to make sure that you don't get your ECU code over-written and come away with a standard tune.

We cannot tell remotely if the problem is still battery related or not. If you managed to clear the codes and they came back, then I can tell you that you wasted your money replacing that sensor. Your wallet is telling you that it is going much better because physically it has got lighter and psychologically your brain is telling you that it must be going better because you spent money on it. Your ECU is telling you that you haven't spent the money on the right part yet.

We have given you our best opinions on possible causes, but doing fault diagnosis is never going to be great from the other side of the planet.

I hope that your battery is the problem, or that your tech finds the root cause, because otherwise you will end up changing things randomly til you find the real problem.

Good luck.

Cheers,

Alf.
 
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If you can get a new battery under warranty, go for it. If you can’t, change the battery anyway. At least that should eliminate one potential source of your problem. A few years ago I had a diagnosed battery problem in my first Giulietta and Alfa changed it under warranty with no questions asked, not that there needed to be.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
If your car has been de-catted and it does the pops and bangs, your technician will know when you pull up in the driveway that the car is not standard, even if he's only ever heard one at a distance - tuned cars with modified exhausts sound very different. And if they are deaf, the stinky exhaust will be another give-away clue.

So yes, you will give the workshop reason to void your warranty IF the mods that you have done could be the cause of any item you are claiming under warranty. Your warranty will still be fine for other non-related items (for example a faulty window mechanism).

Most of the guys with tuned ECU's will keep their old standard ECU and drop that back in when returning their car to an Alfa workshop if the car is still in warranty.

Having said that, you are taking it there to get the battery checked and the codes cleared.

If this is your only ECU, then you will have to make sure that you don't get your ECU code over-written and come away with a standard tune.

We cannot tell remotely if the problem is still battery related or not. If you managed to clear the codes and they came back, then I can tell you that you wasted your money replacing that sensor. Your wallet is telling you that it is going much better because physically it has got lighter and psychologically your brain is telling you that it must be going better because you spent money on it. Your ECU is telling you that you haven't spent the money on the right part yet.

We have given you our best opinions on possible causes, but doing fault diagnosis is never going to be great from the other side of the planet.

I hope that your battery is the problem, or that your tech finds the root cause, because otherwise you will end up changing things randomly til you find the real problem.

Good luck.

Cheers,

Alf.
Well I could tell my car started to loose power at times. Going down the road and a few times I pushed on the gas and it wouldn't accelerate at all, and other times it acted like it was trying to stall out. Since I had it replaced it hasn't tried to do that, yet, so maybe its just coincidence too. I have my old ECU and can put that back on no problem, just not sure how its gonna react to having no cat on. I'm assuming it'll throw a check engine light and go into limp mode immediately, but I will switch them tonight and drive around and see how it does.
 

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Well I could tell my car started to loose power at times. Going down the road and a few times I pushed on the gas and it wouldn't accelerate at all, and other times it acted like it was trying to stall out. Since I had it replaced it hasn't tried to do that, yet, so maybe its just coincidence too. I have my old ECU and can put that back on no problem, just not sure how its gonna react to having no cat on. I'm assuming it'll throw a check engine light and go into limp mode immediately, but I will switch them tonight and drive around and see how it does.
I can't answer the one about you getting a CEL & limp mode with the standard ECU as I don't run a tuned ECU, or de-catted exhaust, maybe the other guys can help.

If your car is running better, then good. Every time you take a car out, things like the weather and temperature have a big effect on what's going on with the engine, so for instance you can have an electrical problem with an ignition coil that only shows when it is wet weather, or the coil gets hot and overheats... intermittent problems are hard to find, whereas if it displays the sysmptoms when test driven, it is a lot easier to find.

I am hoping that you have found the issue and that the remaining codes are caused by the battery voltage giving the car's computers false information from the sensors, or that the codes are just ones that need a factory reset. We have had cases where codes that cannot be cleared with the hand-held units that are on sale to the public, that the Alfa dealer's tech is able to reset using their computer as it has more access to the car's systems.

Cheers,

Alf.
 

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In order for the decat to throw a emissions CEL and put the car into limp mode, the car has to complete its test cycle. That is going to be 60+ miles. Until then, it will read "not ready" and should drive as normal.

So, if you get a CEL and your O2 sensor codes before that distance is travelled (I expect that it will vary somewhat, but in and around that) , then you have something to show your service department.
 

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Discussion Starter #46
In order for the decat to throw a emissions CEL and put the car into limp mode, the car has to complete its test cycle. That is going to be 60+ miles. Until then, it will read "not ready" and should drive as normal.

So, if you get a CEL and your O2 sensor codes before that distance is travelled (I expect that it will vary somewhat, but in and around that) , then you have something to show your service department.
So. I took the tuned ECU off, and put the factory ECU back on. No codes at all, until I turn the car off and then turn it back on. Up until then, I can drive in any modes I want to for at least 30 miles. When I turn the car off, and then back on, can drive about 40ft and the CEL comes back on throwing it into limp mode.

I've done this twice and same exact result. It shows the P0138 code but the other code is gone. Tomorrow morning ill know if my car is hard to start again like it has been every morning since track day.

Soooo, I dont know what tomorrow holds, but so far it seems like the issue is probably my tuned ECU.

If the tune is suppose to have the CEL delete and ignore the O2 sensors or ignore them enough to block the CEL from coming on for that reason, and the other code isn't coming on anymore, then logically I would have to say its the tuned ECU. Something has broken loose inside it causing the CEL delete issue not to work and causing the other code to show up, which could be why its hard to start in the morning.

I'll know more in the morning but at least im hopeful we narrowed it down to the tuned ECU.

Whats yall opinions on this?

(Yall: your all, you all) my southern slang which may not translate to other countries haha
 

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Discussion Starter #47
Still having issues. Now more than ever. Dealership still haven't gotten back to be about the battery. Been over a month. Gonna call again today and see if they have it. Recently I have changed both o2 sensors. Eurocompulsion said even though its saying it could be sensor 1 bank 2, to change the sensor 1 bank 1 as well. So I did, no change. Sent them my ecu because I thought that it might be the issue, but after I sent it back I started to get the same codes on my original ecu. Its been a month now and they still haven't been able to send me back the ECU. I have no idea whats taking so long. I've called and emailed with no response.

These are the codes I got this morning.

This is a list of codes that in currently getting.

P0304
P0363
P0036
P0138
P0136
P0687

My local dealership is trash so I can't take it to them and because I'm letting family use my other vehicles, this is the only one I have to drive now.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you guys
 

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Discussion Starter #50
I was suggested to change out my coil packs because of the misfire in cylinder 4 this morning. How hard is it to change those out and replace?

After work I will be going to walmart and seeing if they have that specific battery. Dealership wants me to buy the stock battery for $209 plus tax
 

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I was suggested to change out my coil packs because of the misfire in cylinder 4 this morning. How hard is it to change those out and replace?

After work I will be going to walmart and seeing if they have that specific battery. Dealership wants me to buy the stock battery for $209 plus tax
Misfire could be due to bad spark plug too which is way cheaper to replace. I have not replaced either on my 4c after 4 years and 27K miles but I have done it on various other cars, just need to disconnect battery, remove engine cover, disconnect coil power socket and then usually one tiny bolt for the coil and spark plug will be underneath the coil if you decide to replace that too, not too hard just look at the manual to torque em properly afterwards. Put some dielectric grease on the ceramic part of spark plug.
Also it is recommended to replace a full set together specially if you replace spark plugs.
 

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I was suggested to change out my coil packs because of the misfire in cylinder 4 this morning. How hard is it to change those out and replace?
...
When looking for information like this, there are some great resources at your fingertips on this forum.

Check out the sticky threads in the Engine and Technical section of the forum.

One is a DIY and Technical Information thread, indexing any DIY threads which members have posted.
Found this for you there:

Also, there is a thread linking to the "4C Cloud" on which you will find the full service manual - I'm sure that the procedure you are looking for is detailed there as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
Misfire could be due to bad spark plug too which is way cheaper to replace. I have not replaced either on my 4c after 4 years and 27K miles but I have done it on various other cars, just need to disconnect battery, remove engine cover, disconnect coil power socket and then usually one tiny bolt for the coil and spark plug will be underneath the coil if you decide to replace that too, not too hard just look at the manual to torque em properly afterwards. Put some dielectric grease on the ceramic part of spark plug.
Also it is recommended to replace a full set together specially if you replace spark plugs.
Thanks you. I get the battery, see if thats changes anything, then if not, ill order the coil packs and spark plugs.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
When looking for information like this, there are some great resources at your fingertips on this forum.

Check out the sticky threads in the Engine and Technical section of the forum.

One is a DIY and Technical Information thread, indexing any DIY threads which members have posted.
Found this for you there:

Also, there is a thread linking to the "4C Cloud" on which you will find the full service manual - I'm sure that the procedure you are looking for is detailed there as well.
That helps me so much. Thank you. First forum I've ever been on and I only have my phone so im still not familiar with how everything works.
 

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Usually when multiple error codes are being flagged, a lot of times it's a wiring issue. I don't have schematics for the 4C (honestly, I'm done working on cars, too old), but a lot of times you can draw conclusions to possible wiring issues by which codes/sensors are being triggered and matching that up with the wiring diagrams.
 

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Discussion Starter #56
Usually when multiple error codes are being flagged, a lot of times it's a wiring issue. I don't have schematics for the 4C (honestly, I'm done working on cars, too old), but a lot of times you can draw conclusions to possible wiring issues by which codes/sensors are being triggered and matching that up with the wiring diagrams.
The battery is replaced and as of now, these are the only 2 codes that i am getting, but doesn't mean the other won't come back.

P0036
P0138 i sure hope its not a wiring issue cause I have no idea who could even look into a car like this
 

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OBD-II Trouble Code Description for P0036 Alfa Romeo

HO2S Heater Control Circuit


What does this mean?
OBD2 Code P0036 Alfa Romeo definition:
Oxygen Sensors (O2S) or Heated Oxygen Sensors (HO2S) need to reach a minimum operating temperature of 750 degrees F to produce an accurate voltage signal. The faster the heated oxygen sensor reaches that temperature the faster the sensor will start sending an accurate signal to the Engine Control Module (ECM). In order to achieve the require temperature, a heater element is included inside the heated oxygen sensor. The ECM controls the heated oxygen sensor heater element based on signals from the engine coolant temperature and engine load. The ECM controls the heater element circuit by allowing current flow to ground. The ECM monitors the voltage signal received through the heater element circuit and determines the state of the circuit by comparing the voltage detected with the factory specifications.
Symptoms
Possible sumptoms of OBD code P0036 Alfa Romeo
– Engine Light ON (or Service Engine Soon Warning Light)
Causes
Possible causes of OBD code P0036 Alfa Romeo
– Heated Oxygen Sensor (H2OS) Bank 1 Sensor 2 circuit open shorted to ground – Heated Oxygen Sensor (H2OS) Bank 1 Sensor 2 circuit poor electrical connection – Faulty Heated Oxygen Sensor (H2OS) Bank 1 Sensor 2 circuit – Heated Oxygen Sensor (H2OS) Bank 1 Sensor 2 circuit fuse – Faulty Engine Control Module (ECM) The Error code is generally activated on detection of the following conditions: The P0036 Alfa Romeo is set when the ECM detects an open or shorted to ground condition on the heated oxygen sensor heater circuit
Possible Solutions
The code means that there is a problem with the heater element circuit of the heated oxygen sensor. Water getting inside the heated oxygen sensor connector can caused the heated oxygen sensor fuse to blow, which is a very common problem for this type codes. Before replacing the sensor, check for the condition of the heated oxygen sensor fuse and connectors. HO2S Heater Control Circuit Bank 1 Sensor 2 is the generic definition for the P0036 Alfa Romeo; however your vehicle’s manufacturer may have a different definition and information for the P0036 Alfa Romeo code.



P0138 code:

Alfa-RomeoCode:p0138Definition:O2 Sensor 1/2 Circuit HighDescription:The 4-Wire Oxygen (O2) Sensor is equipped with a galvanic battery that typically generates a voltage signal between 0.0 volts and 1.0 volts. The 4-Wire O2 Sensor also includes a heating element that keeps the sensor at proper operating temperature during all operating modes. Maintaining correct sensor temperature at all times allows the system to enter into closed loop operation sooner. Also, it allows the system to remain in closed loop operation during periods of extended idle.Cause:
  • LOOSE CONNECTIONS AT THE POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE OR DOWNSTREAM O2 SENSOR
  • POOR DOWNSTREAM O2 SENSOR WIRING CONTINUITY
  • DOWNSTREAM O2 SENSOR GROUND WIRING CONTINUITY
  • DOWNSTREAM O2 SENSOR WIRING SHORTED TO BATTERY
  • EXHAUST SEEPAGE
  • O2 SENSOR CONTAMINATED
  • POOR O2 SENSOR FITTING
  • DOWNSTREAM O2 SENSOR






Maybe you've got also a bad oxygen sensor??? (the one AFTER the cat)
 

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Discussion Starter #58
OBD-II Trouble Code Description for P0036 Alfa Romeo

HO2S Heater Control Circuit


What does this mean?
OBD2 Code P0036 Alfa Romeo definition:
Oxygen Sensors (O2S) or Heated Oxygen Sensors (HO2S) need to reach a minimum operating temperature of 750 degrees F to produce an accurate voltage signal. The faster the heated oxygen sensor reaches that temperature the faster the sensor will start sending an accurate signal to the Engine Control Module (ECM). In order to achieve the require temperature, a heater element is included inside the heated oxygen sensor. The ECM controls the heated oxygen sensor heater element based on signals from the engine coolant temperature and engine load. The ECM controls the heater element circuit by allowing current flow to ground. The ECM monitors the voltage signal received through the heater element circuit and determines the state of the circuit by comparing the voltage detected with the factory specifications.
Symptoms
Possible sumptoms of OBD code P0036 Alfa Romeo
– Engine Light ON (or Service Engine Soon Warning Light)
Causes
Possible causes of OBD code P0036 Alfa Romeo
– Heated Oxygen Sensor (H2OS) Bank 1 Sensor 2 circuit open shorted to ground – Heated Oxygen Sensor (H2OS) Bank 1 Sensor 2 circuit poor electrical connection – Faulty Heated Oxygen Sensor (H2OS) Bank 1 Sensor 2 circuit – Heated Oxygen Sensor (H2OS) Bank 1 Sensor 2 circuit fuse – Faulty Engine Control Module (ECM) The Error code is generally activated on detection of the following conditions: The P0036 Alfa Romeo is set when the ECM detects an open or shorted to ground condition on the heated oxygen sensor heater circuit
Possible Solutions
The code means that there is a problem with the heater element circuit of the heated oxygen sensor. Water getting inside the heated oxygen sensor connector can caused the heated oxygen sensor fuse to blow, which is a very common problem for this type codes. Before replacing the sensor, check for the condition of the heated oxygen sensor fuse and connectors. HO2S Heater Control Circuit Bank 1 Sensor 2 is the generic definition for the P0036 Alfa Romeo; however your vehicle’s manufacturer may have a different definition and information for the P0036 Alfa Romeo code.



P0138 code:

Alfa-RomeoCode:p0138Definition:O2 Sensor 1/2 Circuit HighDescription:The 4-Wire Oxygen (O2) Sensor is equipped with a galvanic battery that typically generates a voltage signal between 0.0 volts and 1.0 volts. The 4-Wire O2 Sensor also includes a heating element that keeps the sensor at proper operating temperature during all operating modes. Maintaining correct sensor temperature at all times allows the system to enter into closed loop operation sooner. Also, it allows the system to remain in closed loop operation during periods of extended idle.Cause:
  • LOOSE CONNECTIONS AT THE POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE OR DOWNSTREAM O2 SENSOR
  • POOR DOWNSTREAM O2 SENSOR WIRING CONTINUITY
  • DOWNSTREAM O2 SENSOR GROUND WIRING CONTINUITY
  • DOWNSTREAM O2 SENSOR WIRING SHORTED TO BATTERY
  • EXHAUST SEEPAGE
  • O2 SENSOR CONTAMINATED
  • POOR O2 SENSOR FITTING
  • DOWNSTREAM O2 SENSOR






Maybe you've got also a bad oxygen sensor??? (the one AFTER the cat)
I've already replaced that 1, but maybe it was bad from the factory? I could try to go ahead and replace it again.
 

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Did you say somewhere you have a straight exhaust that you build yourself? Does it mean no cat?
 

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I've already replaced that 1, but maybe it was bad from the factory? I could try to go ahead and replace it again.
Tibby's advice suggests checking fuses to see iif they have blown and if they have, then check connectors for water ingress on the sensors throwing the codes. I would check there before going any further with the diagnosis.
 
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