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Climate refugees, jesus man , that just sounds ridiculous, have canada take them in . Orange man has made the U.S. successful again . Best numbers in history , you can hate the man but the results speak for themselves. The day having kids and creating a family is the day the true meaning of life stops .

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^ I hope that your notion of tolerance and decency extends to welcoming the waves of climate refugees from parts of the globe that are flooded or turned to hot or arid for habitation.

Most life (us, and the stuff that we count on every day) lives in a Goldilocks zone (of temperature, latitude, geology and elevation) on a Goldilocks planet. I would that good thoughts and kind actions be all that are required to keep things in balance, but believe that this is wishful thinking in this case.
The refugees from war-torn areas and places made uninhabitable by horrendous people should be the concern...or do you also blame the wars on "climate change"? (Ocasio-Cortez...are you in here???)
People have been moving around the world due to changing weather, sorry, climate since forever. That's nothing new. There has never been, even before man, and will never be a global static climate. I don't understand what you want. You want nothing to change outside of what you deem normal. Only problem is that it does not and cannot exist. What should the baseline be? What should be the average temps in each city? You can't determine that.
 

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Climate refugees, jesus man , that just sounds ridiculous, have canada take them in . Orange man has made the U.S. successful again . Best numbers in history , you can hate the man but the results speak for themselves. The day having kids and creating a family is the day the true meaning of life stops .

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The refugees from war-torn areas and places made uninhabitable by horrendous people should be the concern...or do you also blame the wars on "climate change"? (Ocasio-Cortez...are you in here???)
People have been moving around the world due to changing weather, sorry, climate since forever. That's nothing new. There has never been, even before man, and will never be a global static climate. I don't understand what you want. You want nothing to change outside of what you deem normal. Only problem is that it does not and cannot exist. What should the baseline be? What should be the average temps in each city? You can't determine that.
By Cornell University:
The headline is a bit of an attention grabber
Rising seas could result in 2 billion refugees by 2100
I'd doubt those numbers too, but consider that this is just from rising waters. There will be areas uninhabitable due to heat and desertification, and salt contamination of drinking water. Even if it is only 20 million (1% of the prediction) people, that's as big a refugee migration as we've ever seen. And unlike those in the past, these would be permanent.

Don't believe it will happen? There are countries already affected. Low lying island nations such as the Maldives may no longer exist in 20-30 years and claim to be already suffering the effects of rising sea levels and increased storm surges from more intense weather events related to GW.

The bottom line is that there will be people displaced. That's not to mention wars that will likely ensue as people are forced closer together and food becomes more costly or difficult to obtain. A 10% increase in food costs to you or mw might be only an inconvenience, but there have been governments fall over much smaller increases in the developing world.


This is a handy tool put out by NOAA - just for the USA. I assume you'll trust the source. Keep in mind that one particluar glacier in Antarctica that is melting at an alarming rate, is said to be solely responsible for a sea level rise of 18".

Consider that much of the world's population lives on coastlines, it would not be surprising that a rise in sea levels would have a noticeable effect. How much, well, I don't know.
And by 2050 or 2100 I won't care. But your kids and grand kids will!
 

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No i dont think it will happen ,just like all of their other predictions , if manhatton is going to be under water why are the real estate numbers through the roof , wouldnt people be leaving .

Its a hoax for stupid people , look at the past predictions .....none came true , coast line real estate is the highest its ever been . " let me tell you , the mortal human what will happen 40 years after your gone " hold them accountable for their fake predictions , its the same as media they can run 10 fake stories a day and never face consequences, some idiot picks up the paper reads the headline and assumes it as fact . The paper than corrects it on pape 37 ,three days later

Also before co2 levels were over 2000 parts per and now they are 400 . With all of these beautiful machine's running on our highways .....

ITS ALL BULLSHIT

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No i dont think it will happen ,just like all of their other predictions , if manhatton is going to be under water why are the real estate numbers through the roof , wouldnt people be leaving .

Its a hoax for stupid people , look at the past predictions .....none came true , coast line real estate is the highest its ever been . " let me tell you , the mortal human what will happen 40 years after your gone " hold them accountable for their fake predictions , its the same as media they can run 10 fake stories a day and never face consequences, some idiot picks up the paper reads the headline and assumes it as fact . The paper than corrects it on pape 37 ,three days later

...
Were you around for the "dot com bubble"?
A lot of people lost a lot of money on companies that the markets believed had value.

Nobody is making more land. And there is increased demand for that.
Perhaps, if prices drop significantly because people start bailing out of low-lying costal areas, you'll be able to pick up a bunch of property for a song.
But you know that old bit about "swamp land in Florida", right?
;) :D
 

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No i dont think it will happen ,just like all of their other predictions , if manhatton is going to be under water why are the real estate numbers through the roof , wouldnt people be leaving .

Its a hoax for stupid people , look at the past predictions .....none came true , coast line real estate is the highest its ever been . " let me tell you , the mortal human what will happen 40 years after your gone " hold them accountable for their fake predictions , its the same as media they can run 10 fake stories a day and never face consequences, some idiot picks up the paper reads the headline and assumes it as fact . The paper than corrects it on pape 37 ,three days later

Also before co2 levels were over 2000 parts per and now they are 400 . With all of these beautiful machine's running on our highways .....

ITS ALL BULLSHIT

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Oh dear, if you knew the aircraft you were about to travel on was going to crash, you wouldn’t get on. People know aircraft sometimes crash but believe it won’t happen to them so we step aboard. Same as those who live at the foot of Mt Vesuvius, near to the SAN Andreas Fault or anywhere near Yellowstone National Park. I’ve visited them all btw. We tend to think whatever disaster awaits it won’t happen in our lifetime or at the time we visit but, based on previous evidence of events, natural disasters in these areas will occur again. Yet people still live there or visit. We see the benefit outweighs the risk, even if the risk may be fatal. There was a recently a group of tourists who visited an active volcano off the coast near Aukland , NZ. People had been visiting it for years. It unexpectedly erupted, killing over 20. They took the gamble and lost. I could say the same for smokers, those who eat to excess, drink alcohol (not even to excess), don’t exercise, spend their time sun bathing hours at a timeetc. They think what the results of their behaviour is too far in future to worry about yet the chances are, sooner or later, it’ll catch up with them. That thought doesn’t stop the behaviour though, as the immediate pleasure outweighs the possible consequence.

Lars, read the graphs. Climate change is no hoax. During human existence CO2 has not been anywhere near 2000ppm. Atmospheric composition has not been static. In the warmer periods, sea levels were much higher than today. At least 50 metres. Things are warming up. Not in your lifetime but eventually the oceans will inundate coastal regions. It’s inevitable. It won’t happen quickly for you to notice but for those on Pacific atols and islands, it’s already happening. As I said people weigh up benefit to risk. Where you are, like me, the benefit outweighs the risk. Maybe in 200 years or so, a mere millisecond of geological time, those living in our respective areas might be having deal with the problem that some of those in the Maldives, Solomon’s and Bangladesh are currently having to deal with. We down here have been having ever hotter and longer drier periods. BTW just received record rainfall with more to come....Fires are out.
I think it sensible to at least try to slow the rate of warming of the planet. Eliminating excessive CO2 emissions as well as carbon capture (ie planting lots more trees) seems a reasonable start to achieving this.....

What I find perplexing is the vehement opposition by so many to make the effort. If anything, I’d be looking at conspiracies between some govts and the fossil fuel industry to maintaining the status quo as it’s a nice little earner for both.
 

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You are right not human existence, dinasore's exsisted and lived under 2000 ppm ....they were alive , they are animals before any combustible engine

Now they are 400 ppm .....explain that ....you cant . Go buy an electric car. I wonder how that would get produced without using any carbon using products ......this is a csr community the hesrt of a car is a combustion engine. You support the very demise of what you love .....its ridiculous
 

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Yes I can, trees and plenty of ‘em converting CO2 to O2 and the carbon being stored in tree trunks then buried to form coal (simplified for the reason of brevity). Reasons for higher CO2: Initially no plants, little free O2 as well. Plants evolved. Increase in O2, decrease in CO2.....During dinosaurs O2 conc was higher than today, maybe around 24%. At the end of the Cretaceous the atmosphere was creating a sick planet due to lots of vulcanism. The asteroid collision was the final straw. The planet recovered. Trees absorbing C again, oceanic phytoplankton too. Since then and with the current positions of continents, mountain ranges, oceans and currents and a relatively stable atmosphere, it has been deduced we’ve had regular cycles of glaciation and warming. (Milankovitch Cycle: The regular cycle of glaciation and interglacial period have been explained by the Milankovitch Cycle whereby the effect of the Earth’s wobble on its axis ( changing its axial tilt) along with periodic changes in the shape of the Earths elliptical orbit brings about the regular ice-age- warming cycle. This time the warming can’t be explained by this, solar activity, volcanism . Add CO2 emissions and the warming noticed is explained.

It doesn’t make sense to compare the planets climate too far back due to continental drift and plate tectonics having its effect on climate... probably more relevant to look over the last 30-40 million years.

Now all that sequestered carbon absorbed by plants over 100s of millions of years is suddenly being put back into the atmosphere by burning fossil fuels ... some say with no effect. I call, and so does the scientific evidence as it stands today, BS to that.
 

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They already predicted the rise of the oceans die to the melting of the ice capand it didn't happen.
I guess they ran out of original ideas and are hoping old predictions have been forgotten so they can recycle them

and in other news

It has also been confirmed while the U.S. was hitting its climate goals, at the same time “80 percent of the increase in CO2 emissions came from Asia and that China and India both contributed significantly” to global increases. “The United States saw the largest decline in energy-related CO2 emissions in 2019 on a country basis – a fall of 140 Mt, or 2.9%, to 4.8 Gt,” the International Energy Agency (IEA) reported Tuesday. “US emissions are now down almost 1 Gt from their peak in the year 2000, the largest absolute decline by any country over that period.” “A 15% reduction in the use of coal for power generation underpinned the decline in overall US emissions in 2019,” the IEA continued. “Coal-fired power plants faced even stronger competition from natural gas-fired generation, with benchmark gas prices an average of 45% lower than 2018 levels. As a result, gas increased its share in electricity generation to a record high of 37%. Overall electricity demand declined because demand for air-conditioning and heating was lower as a result of milder summer and winter weather.”

China and India are the biggests culprits with emission increases if 155% and 208% respectively

if people want to make a difference
That where it needs to start
 

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QUOTE="RYUK, post: 1046737, member: 25970"]
They already predicted the rise of the oceans die to the melting of the ice capand it didn't happen.
I guess they ran out of original ideas and are hoping old predictions have been forgotten so they can recycle them

and in other news

It has also been confirmed while the U.S. was hitting its climate goals, at the same time “80 percent of the increase in CO2 emissions came from Asia and that China and India both contributed significantly” to global increases. “The United States saw the largest decline in energy-related CO2 emissions in 2019 on a country basis – a fall of 140 Mt, or 2.9%, to 4.8 Gt,” the International Energy Agency (IEA) reported Tuesday. “US emissions are now down almost 1 Gt from their peak in the year 2000, the largest absolute decline by any country over that period.” “A 15% reduction in the use of coal for power generation underpinned the decline in overall US emissions in 2019,” the IEA continued. “Coal-fired power plants faced even stronger competition from natural gas-fired generation, with benchmark gas prices an average of 45% lower than 2018 levels. As a result, gas increased its share in electricity generation to a record high of 37%. Overall electricity demand declined because demand for air-conditioning and heating was lower as a result of milder summer and winter weather.”

China and India are the biggests culprits with emission increases if 155% and 208% respectively

if people want to make a difference
That where it needs to start
[/QUOTE]


No, one cannot just say that "someone else needs to change".
Yes, China and India are bad news, largely due to their reliance on coal and the rapid growth of the Chinese dragon.
But guess who is right up there (actually between them)?
104790


NOW, look at it on a per capita basis:
104791


As to sea level rise, it IS happening. Not by feet, but by inches a year and at a rate in the last 5 years twice as fast as the relatively stable rise from 1900 to 1990.

There is only so much water on Earth. It is either in lakes, rivers and oceans, in the atmosphere, or in snow pack and ice caps at the poles and glaciers.
There have been times in earth's history when ocean levels were hundreds of feet higher than now (and there was no ice), and during glaciation where sea levels were hundreds of feet lower than they are today. It is estimated that at the peak of the last ice age, sea level was 400 feet lower than it is today!

And please feel free to tell people in places like the Maldives that there is no sea level rise. That will comfort them greatly.
 

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And what exactly are the US's targets under the current administration?

Critical to note, even from the quote you posted, is that a few mild winters do not constitute a climate action plan!


From a story in National Geographic (not scientific journal, granted, but argument well laid out and based on published data).
It finds India on a path to be 2'C compatible, China to be grossly insufficient, and the US as "critically insufficient".

"CAT" is "Climate Action Tracker" found here: Home | Climate Action Tracker
Supposedly independent, but I couldn't vouch for it.

United States: Where to begin? CAT already ranked U.S. Paris targets as “insufficient.” With the Trump Administration’s ongoing hostility toward climate action, it now categorizes the country’s efforts as “critically insufficient,” their lowest ranking. Among the swings that the present administration has taken at its predecessor’s climate policy: It has attempted to roll back the Clean Power Plan; sought to relax vehicle efficiency standards to such an extent that even vehicle manufacturers have objected; and announced plans to weaken regulations to limit HFC emissions and regulation of methane leaks from oil and gas production.
The administration has been working to actively censor climate science within its own agencies, and has established a climate change review panel tasked with questioning the findings of the country’s National Climate Assessment. The leader of that panel is a climate change denier who has stated that “the demonization of carbon dioxide is just like the demonization of the poor Jews under Hitler.”
CAT estimates that, if implemented fully, the administration’s policies could by 2030 cause an increase in the U.S.’s annual greenhouse gas emissions equivalent to the total annual emissions of the state of California.
The administration has signaled its intent to withdraw from the Paris Agreement in 2020.
 

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Tolerance goes both ways. Forced compliance doesn't.
Is forced compliance ever ok?
Also, I appreciate that you asked about the hypocrisy of being a car enthusiast and believing in climate change, but then post about being tolerant and such.


Orange man has made the U.S. successful again . Best numbers in history , you can hate the man but the results speak for themselves.
I'm guessing you're not including the national debt as part of the "Best numbers in history"? Admittedly, national debt has very little impact on individuals.

Its a hoax for stupid people
Based on your post history and grammar, I would be very careful about calling anyone stupid.

And what exactly are the US's targets under the current administration?
12,000 anger-fueled, crime-admitting tweets by 2021. :D


Side note, no one in this thread is going to convince someone else to change their beliefs or stance. Those who are open-minded and willing to be convinced, aren't posting in a politically charged thread. The deniers will side with each other, the changers will side with their like-minded comments. It's unfortunate, but the nature of the beast.
 

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No, one cannot just say that "someone else needs to change".
Sure I can
In fact you quoted me typing it.
:ROFLMAO:

The point is, the US has been going in the correct direction for a while now, and doesn't need some outside organization, that is only trying to make money, to tell them how to do it.

IMHO the real issue is population and no one wants to address that.
More people = more resources.
More people require more land
More resources = More production to make resources.

Cutting out car exhaust and replacing it with batteries is not the solution.
Nor is taxing the populace.

To be honest
If the CoronaVirus has a Thanos type effect on the world, That will be the most effective solution we will see in decades.

I'm actually ok with that. And yes I was one of the people who watched the Avengers and thought Thanos was genius.
 

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Guess where the masses of coal China and India use is coming from? (Our lot are encouraging a massive new open cut mine on good arable land in the middle of an extremely important and vital aquifer by an Indian company which will get help with govt subsidies if it happens.) Add that to the equation and we’re top of the pops. You lot talk of conspiracies, there’s one there in plain view and money is at the centre of it.
 

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Yea my grammar is bad , i also have big fat fingers , you were obviously triggered by my support for trump . The national debt is a problem and individuals could face ridiculous interest rates at some point . However make your you leave your boy obama out of it ,considering he was responsible for more debt increase than all 43 presidents combined before him .

Typical selective outrage

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Yeah, lets not have this degenerate into a US political debate about current or past politicians, please.

It's a worldwide issue. And as apolitical as they come. Liberals and conservatives alike will either all suffer, or alll laugh in future years.

And it isn't for me or anybody else to judge how anyone here feels about it or deals with it. It's just a discussion around what is, isn't, or may be real.

There is no "one size fits all" reaction required, or even appropriate.

But real information, and clever discourse is appreciated.
 

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Sure I can
In fact you quoted me typing it.
:ROFLMAO:

The point is, the US has been going in the correct direction for a while now, and doesn't need some outside organization, that is only trying to make money, to tell them how to do it.

IMHO the real issue is population and no one wants to address that.
More people = more resources.
More people require more land
More resources = More production to make resources.

Cutting out car exhaust and replacing it with batteries is not the solution.
Nor is taxing the populace.

To be honest
If the CoronaVirus has a Thanos type effect on the world, That will be the most effective solution we will see in decades.

I'm actually ok with that. And yes I was one of the people who watched the Avengers and thought Thanos was genius.
Now I'm going to have to look up "Thanos"!

George Carlin said it best, even though we lost him before this issue was in the popular consciousness.
Roughly paraphrased: The world isn't going to end from this or other catastrophe. It will still be here a billion years from now, unless some greater power pulls the drain plug on the universe and starts the experiment all over again (or if the Vogons show up to build that hyperspace bypass). It's a self-healing system. It will survive, even it it means all life is purged for millennia. It's the human race that need to be worried. But we're not doing any harm to the planet - we're doing it to MANKIND.
 

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I miss George Carlin. He had the most intelligent comedy you will ever hear.

This is Thanos. When he got all the jewels for the glove, it allowed him to snap his fingers and half the population was gone.

 
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