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Discussion Starter #21
Typically the reason most mfr's say not to let an engine idle from cold to warm up, is because of increased emissions. By actually driving the car from a cold start, the engine comes up to temperature faster, thereby going into closed loop sooner and reducing emissions.

It's also not a good idea to start a car (especially in cold weather) from cold, move it and shut it right off, such as moving it out of and into a garage.

Do this repeatedly a few times, you wash the cylinders down with fuel, dilute the oil, and load up the plugs. As good as modern engine management systems have become, an internal combustion engine still requires cold start enrichment to start and run acceptably well.

Jeff
Makes sense. My commute to work is about 8 miles, fortunately mostly allowing for highway speed. I try to avoid short trips, and especially short moves as you describe. I try to drive conservatively for a couple of minutes and then hit highway speed. I think my commute allows the vehicle to warm well enough . I think I will order an Amsoil oil sample kit which allows me to obtain a sample through the dipstick tube and check the oil again in a couple of months to see what's going on with the fuel dilution, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
I have experienced an increase in crank oil contamination, as identified by testing the drained oil at change.
It's up to 5%, identified as "critical" by the test results.
I'm not sure of the cause. The car is not idled much at all. It's more or less driven at highway speed.

I do have a clone ECU (Pogea). Only other changes are Pogea hoses and suspension.
It's a LE with the Madness Exhaust added.

Any ideas? I'm a little concerned
TIA all
 

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What engine oil has been used in the car? At what mileage/age was it changed? What oil is it currently running? Are you constantly in Dynamic mode or stay mostly in Natural? Do you use manual mostly or auto? Do you gear down before accelerating? Do you press the throttle gradually or just stomp on the throttle? Were you gentle during the breaki-in period or did you load up the engine, vary engine speed or keep it relatively constant? If you describe your driving style and the treatment of the engine maybe someone will be able to make an assessment. What testing equipment was used? And lastly has anyone else had this testing of their crankcase oil done and what were the results? The more info the better in diagnosing the issue. Regards.
 

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Do you have the optional choke and carburator setup ;)


No, just kidding. I'm certainly no mechanic, nor have any experience as such ;)


But as an interested car enthusiast a quick Google search lead me to the following:




Sounds logical and obvious:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crankcase_dilution
Crankcase dilution is a phenomenon of internal combustion engines in which unburned diesel or gasoline accumulates in the crankcase. Excessively rich fuel mixture or incomplete combustion allows a certain amount of fuel to pass down between the pistons and cylinder walls and dilute the engine oil. It is more common in situations where fuel is injected at a very high pressure, such asating oil from the cylinder walls, travel past the piston rings and collect in the oil pan, thus increasing wear and also diluting the lubricating oil. Since the less volatile components of the fuel will have the greatest tendency to condense, the degree of crankcase-oil dilution is directly related to the end volatility temperatures of the mixture.


Which makes me wonder if you drive a lot of smaller distances and/or maybe even not very much at all ?




Then theirs this, the 4C ECU software has calculation models on exhaust gas temprature (all modern cars have these I assume ? ) with a certain strategy. The link is translated quite poorly by Google translate as you can see.

Original link
http://www.squadra-tuning.nl/autos/categorie/218/auto/228.html


Translated link
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.squadra-tuning.nl%2Fautos%2Fcategorie%2F218%2Fauto%2F228.html&sl=nl&tl=en


What can we as tuner still improve a 4C? Well terms of torque and capital we were there so soon out. A gain of about 40 Nm quite an impact on a car of 900 kg. The 24 horsepower gains is also neat. Especially if one understands how it is achieved. Only increase the boost pressure does not give the maximum power at a 4C. There needs to be done. The software is equipped with calculation models for the exhaust gas temperature. When this reaches a certain value, the mixture is made considerably richer. Resulting in a lower power. As one walks into practice at full throttle in 3rd gear just not against it. In 4th gear from about 5000 rpm. In 5th and 6th just before. An investment bank it depends on how it is measured. A quick measurement, is not affected. Measurement at a slower though. The strategy is by default activated with a far too low (about 780 degrees) temperature exhaust gas. Each tuner knows that handle a turbo easily 950 degrees. Because this is a mathematical model we are going to be sure there are well below. When the strategy is still active than possible under really tough conditions, the enrichment that we use less strongly than does the factory. When using less good fuel will detect ping the system and leave the inflammation. The calculation provided herein. With regular correction of the ignition, the exhaust gas temperature is calculated higher. Overall, a nice model where you as a tuner must use as long as your tuner but understands how and why.




Could it be that the Pogea ECU software doesn't use these calculation models correctly ?, that their not adjusted correctly? that the exhaust gas temprature get's too high, thus making the fuel/air ratio too rich ?
 

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As I understand, the Pogea tune only affects dynamic and race modes.
So how you drive and when you use dynamic mode may be contributing factors in your oil test results. The more info the better.
I'm considering a tune so am very interested in your situation and how you resolve it.
 

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Gas in the oil generally means the car is running rich or extra fuel is going into the cylinder. But you will always have some gas in the oil. I'm not sure about 5% over what time. That does sound like a bit too much.

It's common in carburated cars when the needle valves or floats leak into the cylinders. I have no idea about direct injection but it could be a leaky value also.

I'm just guessing here but if you have the oil analyzed they should be able to give you a better idea. Also, the ECU readouts can give a clue as well.

Gas in the oil is bad because it prematurely breaks down the oil which obviously hurts everything that it's lubricating.
 

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It shouldn't be that much. Although you say that you drive at highway speed, how long are your trips? Frequent short trips? Driving often and not getting the oil up to temp for awhile doesn't get the oil hot enough to burn off contaminants such as fuel. Somewhat elevated fuel dilution levels are expected since the car is DI but 5% is quite high. That does make me worry about my car as well since I have an ECU flash too. I just changed my oil for the first time at 1,800 miles and it sounds like I am glad that I did.
 

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I also have the Pogea Stage1 Clone with hoses, K&N filter, and Madness exhaust. I bought the car with 1400 miles on it. I installed the clone immediately and had the oil changed at 3500 miles. I am now just at 7000 miles and ready for another oil change. I drive in Dynamic mode about 1/2 the time.

I would be happy to have my oil tested at this change as it would be a good comparison with the same configuration. Can anyone suggest where and what tests should be done?
 

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Blackstone Labs service is great. I have several friends that use them to keep an eye on bearing wear (BMW application) as this shows up as elevated wear metals in the oil.

They give you a thorough report as well as a recommendation as to how much service life is left with the oil. It is important for you to tell them what oil you are using as they know the base composition of the oil and then track how much the oil has degraded or what additional compounds are present from use.
 

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Invaluable tool for "looking inside" engines.
We use for heavy equipment, although I've never felt my cars received enough abuse to warrant it.

So, not sure about what Blackstone will report, but expect it is similar to the attached. Various different metal types will suggest whether it is bearings, piston sleeves, rings, etc. that are wearing. They also check for antifreeze (head damage) and fuel dilution (typically injectors).

Here's a report for a big Cat excavator.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
What engine oil has been used in the car? At what mileage/age was it changed? What oil is it currently running? Are you constantly in Dynamic mode or stay mostly in Natural? Do you use manual mostly or auto? Do you gear down before accelerating? Do you press the throttle gradually or just stomp on the throttle? Were you gentle during the breaki-in period or did you load up the engine, vary engine speed or keep it relatively constant? If you describe your driving style and the treatment of the engine maybe someone will be able to make an assessment. What testing equipment was used? And lastly has anyone else had this testing of their crankcase oil done and what were the results? The more info the better in diagnosing the issue. Regards.
Thanks for your response. Frankly, the car has not been driven much. I never drive it less than 7 miles at a time, however. The speeds vary from 45mph to 75 mph, with short bursts of higher speed. I have really not used "dynamic" that much, and have not used "launch" yet.
I run Amsoil Full Syn 5w-40 Euro Full Saps oil. There is not much lugging. The oil testing was done at Oil Analyzers Inc of Indianapolis Indiana ( The company Amsoil test kits use ).
The car only has 3k miles and is a year old. I have changed the oil more due to "break in" ( I know, old fashioned ) and time, not mileage. The good news on the analysis ( x2) is that there is no evidence of unusual wear. No increase in metallic components, etc. However, its been tested x2 and the first one had 3.5% gas, and the second >5% gas dilution. Why I have no clue.
I have contacted a couple of sources to pick their brains, but am awaiting their response. I do have the iPhone app through the bluetooth module which monitors the engine, and I need to run an analysis on that for sure.

Thanks for the response.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
I'm not sure where you are located, but Amsoil sells test kits and also oil sampling devices which allow one to test oil between changes by accessing through a tube through the dipstick.
If you are interested, you can buy through their website. ( I have no personal gain from Amsoil)

I run Amsoil Euro Formula 5w-40 Full SAPS if you're interested. I talked to a guy who runs a Euro repair shop here ( primarily BMW/Mercedes ) who has high power BMWs ( M3, etc) , and he says Amsoil is the best. JMHO too.

The Oil Analyzers Inc report on the oil analysis is VERY detailed.
Thanks for your response.
HTH
 

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Discussion Starter #37
I'm going to check status with my Lemur bluetooth

Deltona is correct. That's really the only way for this to happen short of a crazy rich mixture from a tune, and I seriously doubt that's the case.

Greg
I have an OBDII scan tool. I obviously need to run it to see what the hell is going on.
 

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As mentioned earlier in this thread, I had virtually the same setup as Mankind. Pogea Clone and hoses, K&N Filter, Madness Exhaust. Just changed oil for 2nd time. First was at 3600 miles and this one is at 7300 miles, so this oil saw 3700 miles. The only out of whack reading was the Silicon. Everything I have read suggests this is not uncommon for new engines due to the gasket sealers that can be used.

My fuel contamination was <2.0 which is great. I was worried it may have been higher. Anyway, official report attached.
 

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