Inconsistent Problems: “The Christmas Tree of Death”.

84126 Views 409 Replies 73 Participants Last post by gabbiano, 4 mo ago

Racer Z

Discussion Starter · Nov 26, 2015

Last night my 4C died. She just wouldn't crank over.

Lot's of idiot lights telling me all sorts of things all at the same time:

ESC not available
Automatic mode not available
Service transmission

She wouldn't crank as if I had left her in gear (which I never do) so I pressed the 'N' button. Turned off the key and tried to start her.

Again nothing with basically the same mess of idiot warnings. So again I pressed 'N' and tried to start the car. In total disbelief that my beloved 4C could have any Alfa related problems, I tried it one more time.

She fired up. The warning lights continued. But slightly different.

Service transmission
Service engine
The orange asterisk in lower left corner was on.

I could not get out of 'Natural' mode.
I could switch between auto and manual.

She drove, but with problems. It's been almost forever since I drove in Natural, so I wasn't sure really. I had to press the throttle down, a lot, to get any power/RPM and the clutch to engage.

The engine seemed good though. Hitting on all four, smooth and clear.

The shifts felt, odd and clunky. "Clunky" both in sound and feel.

It was dark, nigh-time and I had to get to school (college), so I drove. After a while she started to surge. As in speed up / slow down on her own. I got to school without mishaps and parked her.

After my class, she fired up in the normal fashion. Now the only idiot light was "service engine" which is a generic term and does not indicate what the problem might be. It could simply mean: 'change the oil'.

I was still stuck in Natural mode though. The throttle response / power output felt better too. More like I remember Natural being. I didn't notice any "clunk" during shifts now. Now I could say for sure that earlier, she had no power, no throttle response.

But, now I hear a 'squish' as the suspension compresses / decompresses. And that infamous bang is still there. You know, the bang that goes away when the mechanic is near.

I've owned 'The Illusive One' almost one year now. I bought her on Black Friday (the day after Thanksgiving) which is tomorrow. She has 15,500 miles now. Until last night, she's been a trouble free car.

See less See more

1 - 20 of 410 Posts

foleydb

· #2 · Nov 26, 2015

Ugh. Sorry to hear it. Hope it's quickly diagnosed and more quickly resolved.

swift4cII

· #3 · Nov 26, 2015

Last week - I had to have mine towed in. Would not even turn on .

Turned out to be a bad lead on the negative terminal.

Once they cleared out the computer system and fixed the issue, I swore it was running better than before the issue.

I hope they are able to address your issue just as quickly.

I wonder if returning the ECU back to the original settings has value?

Good luck.

tuonor

· #4 · Nov 26, 2015

A bit of a stab in the dark but have you checked the battery voltage?

I've seen similar weirdness on the Alfa's Italian cousins when the battery charge is weak. They can be sensitive.

Hope you get it sorted soon.

4Canada

· #5 · Nov 26, 2015

That sucks.
But I wonder if it is related to the recurring code problem that you mentioned before (perhaps all caused by something as simple as the voltage/connection issues mentioned above)?
Fingers crossed that your dealer can figure this out - you need a vehicle that you can have confidence in.

Good luck!

Racer Z

Discussion Starter · #6 · Nov 26, 2015

swift4cII said:
Last week - I had to have mine towed in. Would not even turn on .

Turned out to be a bad lead on the negative terminal.

Once they cleared out the computer system and fixed the issue, I swore it was running better than before the issue.

I hope they are able to address your issue just as quickly.

I wonder if returning the ECU back to the original settings has value?

Good luck.

ECU is original, I've never bought a "clone" or any other upgrade. For that matter, the entire car is stock. Well, except for the hay bale, and all the repair parts were OEM, which keeps it in the "still stock, still original" class.

Racer Z

Discussion Starter · #7 · Nov 26, 2015

I checked the fluids today. All is where it should be. No sign of any seepage or obvious problem. That's about all I can do ATM.

Took her to the store to get 'last minute stuff' for the wife. Ran just fine. Except for the "service engine" light and the fact that it's stuck in Natural Mode.

Always a show stopper. This guy asked about her. "Is there room for golf clubs?" So I showed him the huge trunk.
Oddly, he never said anything about the Cayman I was parked next to. Which looked kind of . . . BRZish next to the 4C.

Reactions: 1

Docron

· #8 · Nov 27, 2015

Have you checked for any CELs yet? Or did a prolonged battery disconnect?

I know that with multiple pulls on a 2WD dyno, the car can be put in a "limp" mode (car stuck in Natural mode) which is speculated due to the front and rear wheel speed sensors mismatching. This can usually resolve itself with a battery reset.

Just spitballing....

Reactions: 1

Racer Z

Discussion Starter · #9 · Nov 27, 2015

What's a 'CEL'?

As a daily driver, I don't drive so spirited as to get wheel spin, of any type.

alfaguy

· #10 · Nov 27, 2015

CEL is the check engine light.

You could try a battery reset.

Disconnect both battery terminals from the battery and connect both leads together for 30 minutes or so. Reconnect the battery and see what happens. Probably won't clear the check engine light, but might get the car out of 'limp' mode?

Worth a shot ...

Reactions: 1

Docron

· #11 · Nov 27, 2015

Get a cheap $30 OBDII reader from Autozone and plug it in your OBDII port (near your left shin) and scan for check engine light (CEL) codes and post them here with the display explanation. This will give us more information to help you potentially diagnose your issues. Read codes before you do battery reset.

Reactions: 1

Racer Z

Discussion Starter · #12 · Nov 27, 2015

alfaguy said:
CEL is the check engine light.

You could try a battery reset.

Disconnect both battery terminals from the battery and connect both leads together for 30 minutes or so. Reconnect the battery and see what happens. Probably won't clear the check engine light, but might get the car out of 'limp' mode?

Worth a shot ...

Ahh, thanks. And, Yes, checking the terminals is something I can do.

Well, to continue ... I had to move my car this evening and guess what? It cured it's self! Yup. Pure Alfa. CEL was off and dynamic was reached. It's all normal again. What did I do? Just like my ex-wife ... ignore it and it goes away.

Turning the key on/off about four time will clear out the fault codes allowing the computer to act as if the problem went away, even if it didn't. The problem with this is that now there are no fault codes for the dealer to read. Next time, if there is a next, I need to have it flat-bedded to the dealer so they can see problem and read the fault codes.

Reactions: 2

Racer Z

Discussion Starter · #13 · Nov 27, 2015

Docron said:
Get a cheap $30 OBDII reader from Autozone and plug it in your OBDII port (near your left shin) and scan for check engine light (CEL) codes and post them here with the display explanation. This will give us more information to help you potentially diagnose your issues. Read codes before you do battery reset.

Will any OBDII reader work? I've heard here that most can't/won't read our codes correctly.

While we're on the OBDII subject (nice hijack BTW), is there a blue tooth transmitter so I can use my smart phone to read this?

kazkioken

· #14 · Nov 27, 2015

Racer Z said:
Will any OBDII reader work? I've heard here that most can't/won't read our codes correctly.

While we're on the OBDII subject (nice hijack BTW), is there a blue tooth transmitter so I can use my smart phone to read this?

I've tried 2 different odb2 readers and they won't work (cheap orange ones)...I have a newer fancy color one I'll try tomorrow. There are many blue tooth ones, search on amazon I saw many

AlfaNutZ

· #15 · Nov 27, 2015

Racer Z said:
Ahh, thanks. And, Yes, checking the terminals is something I can do.

Well, to continue ... I had to move my car this evening and guess what? It cured it's self! Yup. Pure Alfa. CEL was off and dynamic was reached. It's all normal again. What did I do? Just like my ex-wife ... ignore it and it goes away.

Turning the key on/off about four time will clear out the fault codes allowing the computer to act as if the problem went away, even if it didn't. The problem with this is that now there are no fault codes for the dealer to read. Next time, if there is a next, I need to have it flat-bedded to the dealer so they can see problem and read the fault codes.

Oh you'll get use to that sort of thing :wink2:

jamiealfa

· #16 · Nov 27, 2015 (Edited)

swift4cII said:
Last week - I had to have mine towed in. Would not even turn on .

Turned out to be a bad lead on the negative terminal.

Once they cleared out the computer system and fixed the issue, I swore it was running better than before the issue.

I hope they are able to address your issue just as quickly.

I wonder if returning the ECU back to the original settings has value?

Good luck.

Can I be smug and say I TOLD YOU SO all I got was "if only it was that simple" not a bad diagnosis from the other side of the world!!!!!!!!! Over the internet!!!!!!!!!!!, boy I am good

More seriously though there is an issue with the negative battery terminal, what seems to happen is corrosion builds up between the pole on the battery and the clamp, the whole thing feels tight and wont move but there is no connection. The only way to cure it is to loosen the terminal remove it and then clean it up before refitting, sometimes loosening it and giving it a wiggle will work but dont count on it, it is best to remove and clean it.

Reactions: 1

zvez

· #17 · Nov 27, 2015

does it completely clear the fault when turning the key on and off, I would think it would stay in memory for the dealer to see.

Racer Z said:
Turning the key on/off about four time will clear out the fault codes allowing the computer to act as if the problem went away, even if it didn't. The problem with this is that now there are no fault codes for the dealer to read. Next time, if there is a next, I need to have it flat-bedded to the dealer so they can see problem and read the fault codes.

Reactions: 2

jamiealfa

· #18 · Nov 27, 2015

zvez said:
does it completely clear the fault when turning the key on and off, I would think it would stay in memory for the dealer to see.

The fault is stored so we can see it when it comes in, you dont have to take it in with the light on.

Docron

· #19 · Nov 27, 2015

The codes should still be stored even if CEL light turns off (if you didn't do battery reset). It would still be potentially useful information for you (and us) to lnow if you had any codes thrown.

Peter- my little orange OBDII reader from Amazon reads CELs on my 4C. Hmmmm...i will post picture of my reader so maybe we can compare. Maybe we should start formal threads on OBDII readers AND CEL codes....

For OBDII dongles, a bunch of us on the Fiat forum have preordered the new slim PLX Devices KIWI3 scheduled to start shipping in December. And there are smartphone/IPad apps like DashCommand and Torque that you could use to read codes.

I carry an OBDII reader (and a 10mm racheting socket and tire gauge) in my 4C tow hook/filler hose sack in the trunk.

Reactions: 1

swift4cII

· #20 · Nov 27, 2015

jamiealfa said:
Can I be smug and say I TOLD YOU SO all I got was "if only it was that simple" not a bad diagnosis from the other side of the world!!!!!!!!! Over the internet!!!!!!!!!!!, boy I am good

More seriously though there is an issue with the negative battery terminal, what seems to happen is corrosion builds up between the pole on the battery and the clamp, the whole thing feels tight and wont move but there is no connection. The only way to cure it is to loosen the terminal remove it and then clean it up before refitting, sometimes loosening it and giving it a wiggle will work but dont count on it, it is best to remove and clean it.

Yep gotta give you full credit. I will do so here and on the original thread.

Took the dealer some time to find the oxidation that is why the original post on I wish it had been that easy.

My speculation is that there is excessive oxidation on negative terminal due to the open vents just above the battery and because I have a habit to wash the car a ton.

Also, I think here in the US there is a real learning curve for the dealers and Alfa Care. There are not many of these cars out there and mine was the first in, in this area for service of any kind.

I will give the dealer and Alfa credit. The follow up and courtesy was very good. I have even gotten calls from Alfa concierge service to follow up afterwards.

Ah the growing pains of restarting a dealer network...

Reactions: 1

1 - 20 of 410 Posts