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Greetings, @liver

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Hannah
Alfa Romeo Cares
 

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I wanted to remind you of the power you have now in 2022 with social media, Yelp Dealer reviews etc., The Alfa Forum and several others including the auto groups on Nextdoor.com. It is entirely conceivable that you could reach over 1M people in a few days using these tools should the dealership not make this right.

Personally I am still waiting for missing parts from my new 4C Spider. Alfa customer care told me they took care of it and to contact the dealer. When I contacted the dealer they said they knew nothing about it and dont have the parts. In the mean time Alfa customer care closed my file without asking me and its now been over 2 months I have been trying to resolve this and the dealer is not returning my phone calls. Not really how I was expecting to be treated on my new $90K car. At some point I have to pull the pin and go scorched earth on my experiences with the dealer and Alfa customer care. IMO that has been a total waste of time. Every time I spoke to her she didnt even remember the details of my case of which missing parts were the issue etc. I was embarrassed for her. I was going to send her my old disc of ACT software so maybe she could take some notes on her customers issues.
 

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In states like Michigan they have to provide you with a written quote, prior to service. It's the law. I would start by checking your state laws regarding this. What State are you located in ?
To All, Timing belts are recommended to be replaced but in reality odds are very few just break up. they are designed to stretch right before they go and trust me, 2 mm stretch and you will be farting all over the place and the car will run like poop. So I have a 4C with 94k miles and it still has the original belt, why you asked, because I know how they fail in a FIAT. Now if it goes all at once, I will turn off the engine is possible hoping for the best, chances are you will bend one or two valves and those can be replaced easily in a dual over head cam 1.7 engine. Now you can follow the recommendations to be safe and if you have the cash. I have another engine ready when that happens so that I can just swap them. the engine cost me 6000 dollars. You do the math, I come out ahead. I also have another transmission paid 3000 for it. I will take my chances at this point with the belt and odds are it will stretch and the PCM will complain when this happens.
 

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To All, Timing belts are recommended to be replaced but in reality odds are very few just break up. they are designed to stretch right before they go and trust me, 2 mm stretch and you will be farting all over the place and the car will run like poop. So I have a 4C with 94k miles and it still has the original belt, why you asked, because I know how they fail in a FIAT. Now if it goes all at once, I will turn off the engine is possible hoping for the best, chances are you will bend one or two valves and those can be replaced easily in a dual over head cam 1.7 engine. Now you can follow the recommendations to be safe and if you have the cash. I have another engine ready when that happens so that I can just swap them. the engine cost me 6000 dollars. You do the math, I come out ahead. I also have another transmission paid 3000 for it. I will take my chances at this point with the belt and odds are it will stretch and the PCM will complain when this happens.
You had me at Farting all over the place!!! LOL That is quite an unusual strategy you have with swapping engines should the OEM engine fail. I am afraid most of us would be unable to take that level of risk you are comfortable with because of fear of being stranded in the wrong place at the wrong time and also voiding the warranty on the drivetrain. But I do appreciate your humor today!!!
 

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Hi all,

I recently had a horror-show experience with dealer. Skipping the details, they charged me $5000 for a little less than the standard 30k service. They tried to hold the car hostage, so I just paid the bill (with a token discount service guy gave) and intend to fix this after the fact.

I did get a quote before bringing it in, but it was not system generated, and they did not provide a written copy. My bad for not getting the quote in writing, but this experience was so much worse even than just an outrageously high bill.

I was hoping that some of you may be willing to scan and provide receipts for 30k service you may have gotten done so that I can provide some kind of evidence to take this up with
1) GM at dealer
2) credit card company to charge them back as a last resort

If you have this and are willing to share, DM and I can provide email to send them to.

Appreciate anyone who is willing to help out in this way.
 

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I was on Oregon 4C owner. I had a couple of conversations with this dealer and dreaded the thought of doing business with them. They quoted me $3,500 for the timing belt and bolt tightening on my 16 coupe. I sold it before it needed it and bought a Porsche just because there are so many more options for reasonable service prices. For what it is worth, I like the 4c better. I have heard from a few Oregon Alfa owners that they like the Tacoma Washington Alfa dealer much better. I miss my car, but love the peace of mind of the Porsche.
 

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To All, Timing belts are recommended to be replaced but in reality odds are very few just break up. they are designed to stretch right before they go and trust me, 2 mm stretch and you will be farting all over the place and the car will run like poop. So I have a 4C with 94k miles and it still has the original belt, why you asked, because I know how they fail in a FIAT. Now if it goes all at once, I will turn off the engine is possible hoping for the best, chances are you will bend one or two valves and those can be replaced easily in a dual over head cam 1.7 engine. Now you can follow the recommendations to be safe and if you have the cash. I have another engine ready when that happens so that I can just swap them. the engine cost me 6000 dollars. You do the math, I come out ahead. I also have another transmission paid 3000 for it. I will take my chances at this point with the belt and odds are it will stretch and the PCM will complain when this happens.
Alfas’ history with snapped timing belts on their Twinsparks doesn’t give me your confidence. Being from the US you’ve likely no first hand experience of this. Just saying. Good luck with the strategy. I’ll be very interested in how it all unfolds.
 

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May the 4C be with you on that Dice Toss. Personal experience here where timing belt was recommended @ 7 years or 70k miles (whichever came first)..... Timing belt tossed in the 9th year w/ not quite 43k miles and cost an engine..... so the time lapse Does actually mean something. ;)
 

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I was on Oregon 4C owner. I had a couple of conversations with this dealer and dreaded the thought of doing business with them. They quoted me $3,500 for the timing belt and bolt tightening on my 16 coupe. I sold it before it needed it and bought a Porsche just because there are so many more options for reasonable service prices. For what it is worth, I like the 4c better. I have heard from a few Oregon Alfa owners that they like the Tacoma Washington Alfa dealer much better. I miss my car, but love the peace of mind of the Porsche.
At 6500 miles the Portand dealer charged me ~$2300 for the oil change, brake flush, air filter, and bolt tightening. Seemed high to me. They also said the bolt tightening needed to happen once per year regardless of mileage. They were prompt at least. I believe I’ve seen the Official maintenance schedule here somewhere but am confused by the different opinions I’ve read. If someone has the official schedule, it would be great to see again or at least learn the consensus from the more experienced forum members. Apologies for the repetitive question but maybe even direct me to a thread? I’d love to know if anyone has had a better experience with Tacoma or any other dealer in the Northwest for future maintenance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
The maintenance chart is in the user guide. Now that I look a little closer it recommends checking both belts every 12K miles, but only specifies to replace the timing belt every five years in the appendix (which in my case was right on schedule) or at 60K miles.

However, I also do not see water pump on the list (which they did) and I certainly did not get a readout of all the inspection/checks that the manual says to perform.

I understand that replacing belts at this age/milage was likely overkill. I was trying to be a good car owner for a change, as my default behaviour is to run a car into the ground and wait til things break. I tried to follow the recommended preventative schedule, even though it replaces parts that were probably not showing signs of undue wear. May not do that in the future - we'll see.
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The maintenance chart is in the user guide. Now that I look a little closer it recommends checking both belts every 12K miles, but only specifies to replace the timing belt every five years in the appendix (which in my case was right on schedule) or at 60K miles.

However, I also do not see water pump on the list (which they did) and I certainly did not get a readout of all the inspection/checks that the manual says to perform.

I understand that replacing belts at this age/milage was likely overkill. I was trying to be a good car owner for a change, as my default behaviour is to run a car into the ground and wait til things break. I tried to follow the recommended preventative schedule, even though it replaces parts that were probably not showing signs of undue wear. May not do that in the future - we'll see.
View attachment 125352
View attachment 125351 View attachment 125350
The water pump is driven by the timing belt. They did the right thing replacing it along with the belt. Why? Because of the bearing load change. The bearing in the pump is 'worn' to the tension of the old belt. Now installing a brand new belt you change the tension and this could lead to failure of that bearing. Ever heard of someone having a timing belt done, and all of a sudden not long after the water pump starts to leak ??
 
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I'd love to know if we could tackle this TB replacement with a more 'simple' tool for the 1.8 engines or is there a different spacing between the cams on the 4C ??

$30 vs. $280 ??

You know what, SCRATCH THAT IDEA............
When the time comes I will BUY THE PROPER KIT, or if someone else beats me to it for $280, use it, then offer it up here to the next guy, knock $30 off and pay the shipping. That member will use it, knock $30 off and ship it to the next guy, etc........ Why NOT, it's a Forum and were all working on the same car ?? It's the perfect source for that kind of thing. That one place wants $80 to rent it and you have to add a silly $500 deposit which makes absolutely no sense............
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
The water pump is driven by the timing belt. They did the right thing replacing it along with the belt. Why? Because of the bearing load change. The bearing in the pump is 'worn' to the tension of the old belt. Now installing a brand new belt you change the tension and this could lead to failure of that bearing. Ever heard of someone having a timing belt done, and all of a sudden not long after the water pump starts to leak ??
That sounds fair. I'm giving them at much credit as I can muster, but 5000 is still way off the mark.

Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk
 

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View attachment 125354

I'd love to know if we could tackle this TB replacement with a more 'simple' tool for the 1.8 engines or is there a different spacing between the cams on the 4C ??

$30 vs. $280 ??

You know what, SCRATCH THAT IDEA............
When the time comes I will BUY THE PROPER KIT, or if someone else beats me to it for $280, use it, then offer it up here to the next guy, knock $30 off and pay the shipping. That member will use it, knock $30 off and ship it to the next guy, etc........ Why NOT, it's a Forum and were all working on the same car ?? It's the perfect source for that kind of thing. That one place wants $80 to rent it and you have to add a silly $500 deposit which makes absolutely no sense............
I was considering making a forum offer like this when the time nears for me. A few of us could go in together on it and share it's use. The problem is the potential for one dishonest guy to screw it all up. But then again, we have Lars:unsure:
 

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That sounds fair. I'm giving them at much credit as I can muster, but 5000 is still way off the mark.

Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk
Oh yeah, I'm just justifying the importance of doing the water pump as part of the job..... they still have 14 hours of labor to explain there.
 

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I was considering making a forum offer like this when the time nears for me. A few of us could go in together on it and share it's use. The problem is the potential for one dishonest guy to screw it all up. But then again, we have Lars:unsure:
Sure, trouble is likely coordination of it's use all around the same time. Somebody has to take the first $280 (or whatever it costs) hit, and then just sell it for a bit less to the next guy and so on..... hopefully that rules out any dishonesty unless somebody breaks it and pawns the junk off to the next guy. That would be cause for instant Disgrace here on the forum, so that 'should' prevent such issue.
At least this way you don't have to figure tax and silly fees like you would on a site like eBay............
 

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I got mine at Alfa Works Alfa Romeo Cam Lock Tool it was 120 pounds without VAT ($171). Sure I had to pay shipping but since I was ordering all the parts for the belt and water pump, the extra shipping was negligible. Total for all the needed parts, the tool, and shipping to US cost me 314 pounds.

I loaned the tool to my mechanic in SF Bay Area but then a few months later he asked me to sell it to him since others were coming for the belt change so I did.

It may be easier for the shared tool scheme to work if the first person pays only 170.
 

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When I need it, I'll buy one. I'd be willing to lend it out for shipping plus some fully refundable deposit at the time. Perhaps that way we all can benefit without everyone needing to buy one. Mine is a 2018 build though, so not needed yet.
 

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Cool. Back to the subject at hand I just had a thought that (common sense would dictate) would not be a scenario, BUT maybe a Noob Service Writer who was going for that fat commission could easily overlook.............Double-Dipping ❗
That water pump replacement has TWO labor rates. Somebody 'accidentally' chose the wrong one when billing out the Repair Order. RATE#1 / Say the car comes in for a coolant leak and the diagnosis is the water pump is bad (like it was never done when the TB was replaced and failed at a later date) Nearly identical labor rate as it was to replace the TB because Everything has to be done all over again without actually putting a new belt on. RATE#2 / is an amendment to the labor rate of the timing belt job because it is being performed in-ADDITION so only carries the time to physically remove the water pump, clean and install the new (billing shows R&R coolant pump) and this rate will be insignificant compared to the overall job ( .2 - .5 hours, yes, that's like 15 mins to half hour)......... So you see it could indeed be a clerical error, whether by mistake or intentional... ??
 
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