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It’s useless mate. I tried and failed because they are on the wheel and that just doesn’t work. You steer and have to reach around the wheel to get the paddle. I feed the wheel through my hands and suddenly have no idea where the up shift paddle is.
 

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It’s useless mate. I tried and failed because they are on the wheel and that just doesn’t work. You steer and have to reach around the wheel to get the paddle. I feed the wheel through my hands and suddenly have no idea where the up shift paddle is.
You said you were going to track, you should 100% learn how to use the paddles. I prefer my paddles on the wheel vs column because my hands are always 9/3 on track. You should not have to feed the wheel unless it's like a 20 mph hairpin, in which case you shouldn't be having to shift mid corner anyway. Also correct me if I'm wrong but I thought you have to use the paddles in race mode?
 

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It’s useless mate. I tried and failed because they are on the wheel and that just doesn’t work. You steer and have to reach around the wheel to get the paddle. I feed the wheel through my hands and suddenly have no idea where the up shift paddle is.
No problem for me....just try for a while and it becomes natural. Race drivers prefer it as on the 4C instead of column mounted. That way you can keep your hands at 9 and 3 all the time which is the correct position. As you turn beyond that you should be keeping your hands at the same positions but feeding from one hand to the other. This method ensures you always know where your hands are and where straight ahead should be. One aid is to put a piece of contrasting color tape around the steering wheel at the 12:00 position.....you will see a lot of racers add that marker....and some aftermarket steering wheels come with that already in place. I just use a piece of red electronics marking tape.
 

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Yeah which is why I don’t use it. You don’t like feeding the wheel, I don’t like crossing my arms or having them fixed on the wheel just to keep a hold of the paddles. I would use race mode and manual shifting more if they were fixed on the column but honestly I doubt the auto changing will cost me much time on track.
 

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No problem for me....just try for a while and it becomes natural. Race drivers prefer it as on the 4C instead of column mounted. That way you can keep your hands at 9 and 3 all the time which is the correct position. As you turn beyond that you should be keeping your hands at the same positions but feeding from one hand to the other. This method ensures you always know where your hands are and where straight ahead should be. One aid is to put a piece of contrasting color tape around the steering wheel at the 12:00 position.....you will see a lot of racers add that marker....and some aftermarket steering wheels come with that already in place. I just use a piece of red electronics marking tape.
You just made my point for me. I do keep my hands in the same relative position in relation to a clock face. That is why I don’t want the paddle buggering off round the wheel as i do the feeding of the wheel between (stationary) hands, out of corners for example.
You can’t feed the wheel at all or you lose the paddles. You HAVE to do the zombie locked out arm position thing.

Race cars have much quicker steering ratios than road cars, even ours.
 

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Yeah which is why I don’t use it. You don’t like feeding the wheel, I don’t like crossing my arms or having them fixed on the wheel just to keep a hold of the paddles. I would use race mode and manual shifting more if they were fixed on the column but honestly I doubt the auto changing will cost me much time on track.
Keeping hands on 9-3 on track imo isn't about "liking" or not, it's something you should do period. The worst thing you can do is take a hand off a wheel mid corner, especially in a manual steering car.
 

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Keeping hands on 9-3 on track imo isn't about "liking" or not, it's something you should do period. The worst thing you can do is take a hand off a wheel mid corner, especially in a manual steering car.
You misunderstand 9 and 3 position. Its 9 and 3 always the right way up! Not a time traveling 9 and 3 that rotates with the wheel. It’s recommended as the position to keep you hands in and FEED the wheel safely between them to steer, never taking a hand off. They stopped recommending 10 and 2 because of blocking airbags)
What your doing interferes with airbags (when you turn sharply your twisted arms block it) and isn’t for road cars with 3 turns lock to loc or more.
 

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You misunderstand 9 and 3 position. Its 9 and 3 always the right way up! It’s recommended as the position to keep you hands in and FEED the wheel safely between them to steer, never taking a hand off. What your doing interferes with airbags (when you turn sharply your twisted arms block it) and isn’t for road cars with 3 turns lock to loc or more.
If you get an instructor, the first thing they will tell you is to not feed/shuffle the wheel. How you drive a car on public roads is different than on track. I can't even imagine how countersteering works with feeding the wheel

Take it from our resident motorsport guy Gale, notice how he rarely/never takes his hands off the wheel
 

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Nobody here suggested ever taking hands of the wheel. The difference between us is I will feed the wheel for economy of motion but you have your hands locked in the same place on the wheel, or you lose the paddles.
 

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Yeah which is why I don’t use it. You don’t like feeding the wheel, I don’t like crossing my arms or having them fixed on the wheel just to keep a hold of the paddles. I would use race mode and manual shifting more if they were fixed on the column but honestly I doubt the auto changing will cost me much time on track.
Auto mode will cost you plenty of time on track. Worse yet, the robot often shifts at the worst possible time such as mid-corner. Or it over-downshifts after you brake hard at the end of a straight. Or leaves you in too high a gear at corner exit, so you wind up struggling for acceleration. You might as well put the old diff, rubber bushings and stock P-zero’s back on and just have a little fun, because in terms of pushing the limits, you won’t be close.

Auto mode is great for a commute or even if you are just blasting through the countryside. It’s really easy to keep your hands at 3 and 9, where they are right over the paddles. On track you will almost never need to move them from that position - if at all then likely only in one corner (would have to be a slow hairpin). 3 and 9 gives you the most command over the wheel, and the best leverage to turn at speed.

PS - I know this because I did try to track the car in automatic mode on the first few days.
 

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Auto mode will cost you plenty of time on track. Worse yet, the robot often shifts at the worst possible time such as mid-corner. Or it over-downshifts after you brake hard at the end of a straight. Or leaves you in too high a gear at corner exit, so you wind up struggling for acceleration. You might as well put the old diff, rubber bushings and stock P-zero’s back on and just have a little fun, because in terms of pushing the limits, you won’t be close.

Auto mode is great for a commute or even if you are just blasting through the countryside. It’s really easy to keep your hands at 3 and 9, where they are right over the paddles. On track you will almost never need to move them from that position - if at all then likely only in one corner (would have to be a slow hairpin). 3 and 9 gives you the most command over the wheel, and the best leverage to turn at speed.

PS - I know this because I did try to track the car in automatic mode on the first few days.
So, your few days in which you determined auto was wack, were your first FEW days on track with the 4C? This is telling.

You say the paddles are just by your hands at whatever time you said... yes indeed, till you turn the wheel. Then you hands and the wheel and the paddles are NOT at the given time! You could correctly describe your style as 180 degree apart death grip.

Anyway, it’s not steering technique that makes great drivers, it’s what you do with the pedals. That is where the skills are that make professionals.

If anyone finds a fixed paddle solution I will buy it and be glad to paddle and pedal.
 

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So, your few days in which you determined auto was wack, were your first FEW days on track with the 4C? This is telling.
And how much have you tracked with the 4C?

Anyway, it’s not steering technique that makes great drivers, it’s what you do with the pedals. That is where the skills are that make professionals.
Ah yes because car control is not that important in driving a car.

Your skills are going to be limited by your attitude it seems like.

If you wont go into race mode, you won't be able to take off traction control, how are you going to utilize the LSD that you just installed?
 

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Auto mode will cost you plenty of time on track. Worse yet, the robot often shifts at the worst possible time such as mid-corner. Or it over-downshifts after you brake hard at the end of a straight. Or leaves you in too high a gear at corner exit, so you wind up struggling for acceleration. You might as well put the old diff, rubber bushings and stock P-zero’s back on and just have a little fun, because in terms of pushing the limits, you won’t be close.

Auto mode is great for a commute or even if you are just blasting through the countryside. It’s really easy to keep your hands at 3 and 9, where they are right over the paddles. On track you will almost never need to move them from that position - if at all then likely only in one corner (would have to be a slow hairpin). 3 and 9 gives you the most command over the wheel, and the best leverage to turn at speed.

PS - I know this because I did try to track the car in automatic mode on the first few days.
I raced a 1967 ALFA GTV in SCCA B sedan in the 70s. When I first went through the Bob Bondurant school they made a point of teaching to not shuffle steer and keep the hands 9 and 3 as that allows the most full single turn before you need to go hand over hand. This is important because if you ever have your rear end step out you need to be ready to catch it with counter steer and be ready to unwind in the opposite direction to catch a second direction change as it catches. Once you get the drill down, you can keep the same hand positions and hand over hand to gain more steering wheel rotation....even in extreme tight corners like in auto cross.....just avoid shuffle steering....that is how you get "lost" and spin the car as you don't know exactly where wheels pointed straight ahead is (remember that tip about a piece of colored tape around the steering wheel at 12:00 position).

I also agree that if you leave it in auto shift you are adding seconds to your lap time. On the other hand when first learning to track...or a new circuit, it doesn't hurt to try leaving it in auto shift as you concentrate on your line and turn in points.....it helps to have one less thing to worry about as you are in the learning stage. But pay attention to what it is doing and perhaps leaving you in the wrong gear at various spots.....that is a clue that you can go faster by using manual shift mode.
 

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Each to his own, gentlemen.

Drive the 4C like your an F1 driver with its steering ratio of over 15:1 but don’t expect it to drive like an F1 car with 7:1 or even a Giulia Quad with just over 11:1.
 

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So, your few days in which you determined auto was wack, were your first FEW days on track with the 4C? This is telling.
Those were among my first serious track days. With instruction, to be clear.

What’s your track experience with the 4C? I’ve beed doing it for 5 years now (through a dozen sets of tires and numerous brake pads). A large part of that with instruction. Figure that I should have a clue by now.

I’d previously had a few turns out with single and dual clutch cars (never 3-pedal) in manual mode, and a true automatic. The paddle shift cars were column mounted. But they were designed that way (no stalks in the way to confuse your hands).

It was really frustrating (even for a greenie) to be entering the corners a gear too low (revving way too high) because the car over-downshifted after hard braking (you find it does this on the street sometimes as well - very hard to maintain momentum when you are suddenly faced with all that engine braking). Or to go through a high-speed sweeper in too high a gear so that you cannot keep the turbo on simmer (and then get that unsettling turbo kick an an inopportune moment) or be able to get on the gas soon enough. Finally, in a decreasing radius corner, there is a risk of an un-wanted downshift mid-corner. That is likely to wind up in your waving at the cars behind you from your front window.


You say the paddles are just by your hands at whatever time you said... yes indeed, till you turn the wheel. Then you hands and the wheel and the paddles are NOT at the given time!
With the high-ratio rack in our cars, very seldom do you need to move your hands on the steering wheel. Try 3 and 9 and see how often you need to do so on the street. Only on a sharp turn at an intersection (left in a RHD situation) which may need a 1-2 shift. That isn’t an issue on track. In fact, there is almost never a moment when you should be shifting up or down on track with the steering wheel pointed other than straight.

You could correctly describe your style as 180 degree apart death grip.
You may do so if you wish, but it would be ignorant to. It is the style that describes most track drivers and instructors whom I’ve had the pleasure of meeting. Is it the only way? No. If you don’t have a death grip on your first few outings with the 4C on stock alignment, I’ll be impressed. In the last few years, we’ve come to an arrangement where I let the wheel stay loose in my hands if she agrees not to kill me. But when you need to make a quick correction, your hands are where they need to be. A lifetime of driving on snow and ice makes this second nature. Driving a mid-engine car on track, it’s something you’ll discover is vital as you push the limits.

Anyway, it’s not steering technique that makes great drivers, it’s what you do with the pedals. That is where the skills are that make professionals.
Here, I will agree with you. But take the 4C on track and see how your shuffle technique works on an unassisted rack. First one learns the traditional techniques, then one can improvise.

If anyone finds a fixed paddle solution I will buy it and be glad to paddle and pedal.
As said above, the existing stalks take up most of the useful real estate behind the wheel of the 4C. I don’t think that a column-mounted solution would be good for the track, but to each his own. I wish you luck with that.

I predict that you will find two strikes against the proposed technique - shifting and steering will keep you from achieving your optimum times.

I would ask that you at least keep an open mind and consider 3-9, and manual shifting to get the most out of your car, and do so safely.
 

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Consider? Consider, if you will, that I’m half a century old. I have tried more things in more areas of life then you can possibly image.
The 4C is lacking in several areas, this we know well. The steering ratio makes the 180 degree grip unsuitable, which in turn makes the paddles inconvenient to operate, for me. As I say, to each his own.
 

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You said you were going to track, you should 100% learn how to use the paddles. I prefer my paddles on the wheel vs column because my hands are always 9/3 on track. You should not have to feed the wheel unless it's like a 20 mph hairpin, in which case you shouldn't be having to shift mid corner anyway. Also correct me if I'm wrong but I thought you have to use the paddles in race mode?
Correct
 

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Consider? Consider, if you will, that I’m half a century old. I have tried more things in more areas of life then you can possibly image.
The 4C is lacking in several areas, this we know well. The steering ratio makes the 180 degree grip unsuitable, which in turn makes the paddles inconvenient to operate, for me. As I say, to each his own.
Floro, I’ve said it before, a couple of weeks on X-box should sort it.
 

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If you wont go into race mode, you won't be able to take off traction control, how are you going to utilize the LSD that you just installed?
Seriously?
Wheel spin causes the TC to cut power. The wavetrac diff prevents said wheel spin by biasing torque across the axle. TC doesn’t intervene. No drive is lost. TC remains active for when the rear tyres do spin, despite the improved traction and grip.

Your a serious track driver, and you run an open diff with ABS to stop it spinning that one wheel. That’s what doesn’t add up. The e-diff is basically traction control.
 
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