[FLORO]

I want to reduce the steering to about 2 turns lock to lock or just over, maybe 2.2.

I know it only takes a different (bigger) pinion gear with more teeth so maybe GMS or could machine some up??

 

[Philster]

I hope you pull this off. You'd be flirting with the ratio of the 1349 lb / 611 kg Ariel Atom -- a damn bold move in a car with the weight of a 4C. That's commitment!

Feel like you might need a whole new steering assembly married to the shafts/tie rods,. etc. Although if you get the pinion gear bigger and that does it (it fits/meshes), I'd be extremely curious. All the math says you'd be overdoing it and increasing the force required to turn the wheel quickly.

20% faster than 900 kg 911 RS! ... and 21% faster than the vaunted Mclaren F1 which weighs 'bout the same as a 4C! F--k those engineers! LOL.

Go for it! Cheering for this to happen.

#balls

 

[FLORO]

It just means you turn the steering wheel a bit less but by all means, do get excited. Less physical movement! woohoo!! 😀

Seriously though, FOR ME...it’s the only way to make the car suitable to drive with hands fixed at 9/3 (give or take an hour) and therefore use the wheel mounted paddles well.
Anyway, quaife quick racks available off the shelf in 2.2, just not for our car.

 

[delta500hp]

jamie seems to convert to power steering?
ask him

please keep inform.

 

[FLORO]

jamie seems to convert to power steering?
ask him

please keep inform.

That’s nuts, why would you ruin the car with power steering it doesn’t need? I could steer it with the strength of one finger. A faster rack making it heavier would only help it.

 

[Alfanut]

It just means you turn the steering wheel a bit less but by all means, do get excited. Less physical movement! woohoo!! 😀

Seriously though, FOR ME...it’s the only way to make the car suitable to drive with hands fixed at 9/3 (give or take an hour) and therefore use the wheel mounted paddles well.
Anyway, quaife quick racks available off the shelf in 2.2, just not for our car.

I know what you mean. I find myself moving my right hand to the four o’clock position when cornering hard left and my left hand to the eight o’clock position when cornering to the right.

 

[Philster]

My hand position is 8 and 4 and I flick the very bottom of the paddles w/ elbows into body and this gives me leverage. This hand positioning is a combo of the fact the wheel is thicker in the middle and the manual steering needing a little more oomph.

Power steering conversion is to make the steering quick/responsive and dampen out the movements that come with fast manual steering that will see you wresting/fighting with the car. You will feel like you're in a battle. Power steering will smooth out your inputs and the roads.

 

[FLORO]

Philster, those issues are fixed with better tyres and geometry.

Power steering in my view is for luxury and ease, not fixing twitchiness on a carbon exotic that came with bad geometry and bad tyres.

The 4C manual mode demands approximately 9/3 technique to use it. 9/3 is practically impossible all of the time with our steering ratio. I know many attempt it and are satisfied but I am a perfectionist I suppose. I want to be able to actually keep one hand at each paddle all the time, and steer the car, even around hairpins. I don’t want to miss the change because I had to move my hand away from the paddle to make the turn.

 

[4Canada]

Philster, those issues are fixed with better tyres and geometry.

Power steering in my view is for luxury and ease, not fixing twitchiness on a carbon exotic that came with bad geometry and bad tyres.

The 4C manual mode demands approximately 9/3 technique to use it. 9/3 is practically impossible all of the time with our steering ratio. I know many attempt it and are satisfied but I am a perfectionist I suppose. I want to be able to actually keep one hand at each paddle all the time, and steer the car, even around hairpins. I don’t want to miss the change because I had to move my hand away from the paddle to make the turn.

I’m still trying to understand this.

In what situations do you find the wheel turned so much that you need to move your hands away from the paddles, and are still shifting?
The only one that I’ve come up with is a right (in your case, would be left) turn off a stop at a 90 degree junction.

In any other circumstance where the wheel is turned that much, you shoudn’t be shifting. If you are, then you aren’t driving the car to anywhere near its limits.

Rule of thumb is that prior to turning in, you select the gear that is appropriate for exiting the corner.

If you are “a perfectionist”, then this is the approach you should be taking.

 

[FLORO]

I’m still trying to understand this.

In what situations do you find the wheel turned so much that you need to move your hands away from the paddles, and are still shifting?
The only one that I’ve come up with is a right (in your case, would be left) turn off a stop at a 90 degree junction.

In any other circumstance where the wheel is turned that much, you shoudn’t be shifting. If you are, then you aren’t driving the car to anywhere near its limits.

Rule of thumb is that prior to turning in, you select the gear that is appropriate for exiting the corner.

If you are “a perfectionist”, then this is the approach you should be taking.

I have explained myself more than adequately. If you don’t understand, I can’t help you other than to suggest you not using passive aggressive, mocking quotation marks to attempt to undermine me and then expect a civil discussion.

 

[RKBerta]

If you could change the ratio it might be OK on track but for a car driven mostly on the street, it would seriously increase the needed effort at slower speeds. I assume ALFA chose this ratio as a compromise for a car that is mainly a street driven car. There are several other manual rack cars with ratios very similar so I suspect that "engineering standards" had a big part in the discussion. Also don't forget if your put on larger or stickier tires the effort will be increased even with the stock ratio.
I like the manual rack but some have gone with power assisted steering. Jamie may have some input on this....but I recall that there is a Japanese car brand that has a power steering setup that has been used on a couple of 4Cs that isn't too hard to adapt. I would worry about power steering and an even faster ratio with the short wheelbase of a 4C. It may be too fast and make the car very sensitive at speed...even more "twitchy" than in stock form.

 

[FLORO]

My steering is super light and it’s not twitchy at all since upgrades. Lighter than I prefer so that isn’t a minus, it’s plus.

F1 cars... 1.6 turns lock to lock going 200mph like arrows.. If the geo is good and suspension is good, nothing twitchy about it, just quick response, full access to the full lock without ever moving your grip and always having the paddles at your finger tips

 

[Philster]

F1 cars use power steering, unique geometry and downforce on the fronts with adjustable brake bias to unload them along with adjustable diffs to ease turn in.

Shifting a few degrees off center is about as far as anyone should go as as far as shifting. Even if you went 1/4 turn off center and found it stable enough to shift, the quicker ratio steering is not justified by discussing paddle vs hand position.

Don't be upset that others don't agree with you.

 

[FLORO]

Don't be upset that others don't agree with you.

Im not and it’s funny because it’s the other way round.. (as you know) again, ppl clearly object to me having an alternative opinion to theirs. They seem to take offence because I deem what is good enough for them inadequate for me.
I posted to see if there was anyone else interested and wanted to discuss sourcing an speed rack upgrade rather than argue about changing the ratio and driving in general.

 

[RKBerta]

You can do anything you want to your car....and I am more than happy to hear how it works out. Everybody needs to chill and not push their agenda. Better that these experiments are done by someone else as it saves me money and effort...and perhaps that experiment will work out....or perhaps not. I like the idea spending another persons money on experimentation ;-)
Looking forward to a report of how it works out.....just be careful.

 

[FLORO]

Here’s the point. Gripping the wheel 9/3 allows you to SAFELY turn the wheel a maximum of 90 degrees. Beyond that, your arms are crossed over and that isn’t how I want to drive at all. A quarter of our 2.7 turn steering isn’t sufficient so a 2.2 is my plan. Its not like rocket roller skates, I’ll be fine.

 

[HeavyFoot]

No matter how it turns out, make a before and after video for the rest of us.

 

[lawrywild]

Only ever have this issue going round a tiny roundabout so it's a non issue

On track 9 and 3 at all times

I would NOT want a faster rack when on track when running sticky tyres and a decent amount of negative camber. Completely different ball game turning the wheel at 70mph vs 130mph

 

[FLORO]

Only ever have this issue going round a tiny roundabout so it's a non issue

On track 9 and 3 at all times

I would NOT want a faster rack when on track when running sticky tyres and a decent amount of negative camber. Completely different ball game turning the wheel at 70mph vs 130mph

I will put you down as a maybe then shall I?
😁

 

[GMS]

We are discussing potential improvements...

4C has fixed ratio of 15.7:1 and has 2.7 turns of wheel for lock-lock. For each turn, rack moves 44mm.

Compared to 991 GT3RS it seems on a 4C you need much more of counter steer for corrections. At the same amount of oversteer, the GT3 required minor steering wheel input compared to 4C, yet it felt more precise going straight. One thing that I remembered the most about this car driving it on a track last time. GT3 RS has variable ratio steering rack, 4C has fixed ratio.

BTW, Giulia QV has a steering rack ratio of 11.8:1, one of the quickest.