Alfa Romeo 4C Forums banner

Problems fitting uniballs due to variations in rear arm sleeve dimensions

  • With fit problem MY14

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Without fit problem MY14

    Votes: 4 19.0%
  • With fit problem MY15

    Votes: 2 9.5%
  • Without fit problem MY15

    Votes: 6 28.6%
  • With fit problem MY16

    Votes: 4 19.0%
  • Without fit problem MY16

    Votes: 1 4.8%
  • With fit problem MY17

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Without fit problem MY17

    Votes: 2 9.5%
  • With fit problem MY18

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Without fit problem MY18

    Votes: 2 9.5%

  • Total voters
    21
1 - 20 of 395 Posts

·
Vendor
Joined
·
572 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

I'll try to keep it short.

I loved my 4C since day one, but hated the handling from that day on. It kinda didn't match the looks, weight or engine performance of the car. From my point of view, handling was nothing less than disappointing. As I spend all of my money and even borrowed some for a brand new 4C, I just couldn't get past this disappointment so I was searching of a solution to this and here it is. Alfaworks front caster/camber plates fixed the front end, to get rid of tramlining, but the rear end was still a complete mess. Unpredictable, floaty and disconnected. Those of you who have ever driven Lotus, will know what I'm talking about. Those of you who didn't, give it a try, and trust me, you'll start to hate your 4C.

The good thing is that solution is now available to the public. Many of you have already noticed that we have developed a full uniball bushings conversion of rear arms for our 4C. Some of users have also installed and tried this mod, so I invite all of you who did, to share this sensation with other forum members here. I still believe it's the most important and cost effective handling upgrade to day. Even though it sound like a supershop ad, I hope it doesn't turn you off. Give it a try and I am absolutely sure, that those of you who are leaned more towards the perfromance driving won't regret it. At this point I'd really like to appeal to all of you, who are tracking your 4C to forget all the other modifications prior to sorting out the rubber bushings in the rear arms. Give a try to the uniball bushings, we've developed. It is, hands down, the most noticeable and cost effective mod you can make to get your 4C handle liek it should. It'll make your 4C shine from the handling point of view.

An here is the video proof, that car handles much better than stock now:

If anyone hasn't left a notice for a Santa Claus yet, here is the link: click

:smile2:

Regards,

Rudi
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,119 Posts
looks like a great solution. Are these press in to the stock links and if so does it require any machining.I assume we use the existing arms and just install the uniballs...correct?
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
572 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
looks like a great solution. Are these press in to the stock links and if so does it require any machining.I assume we use the existing arms and just install the uniballs...correct?
Correct. They are direct replacement for stock rubber bushings. No machining required, they are designed to be pressed into existing bores in the rear arm.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
73 Posts
Just Ordered up a set of these bushings. I am hoping that along with my other suspension mods, which include the Alfa Works front Blocks, Bilstiens and Michelin Pilot Super Sports (plus one), that these bushing correct the "Rear Steering" effect. I will post more after the bushings have been installed. Here's hoping they correct this Flaw!!
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
572 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Just Ordered up a set of these bushings. I am hoping that along with my other suspension mods, which include the Alfa Works front Blocks, Bilstiens and Michelin Pilot Super Sports (plus one), that these bushing correct the "Rear Steering" effect. I will post more after the bushings have been installed. Here's hoping they correct this Flaw!!
Thank you for your support. I'll try to have the item dispatched by the end of the week. Rear steer effect will be disabled with this mod. Please, let us know how you'll like the change in handling. For me, the change was a 9s difference on the same track compared to stock car. I have changed tires, suspension and bushings. Hard to believe, but the biggest difference caused uniball conversion.

Don't forget to do the alignment afterwards.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
572 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)

·
Registered
Joined
·
856 Posts
Rudi is absolutely right that installing these very high quality uniball bushings will improve the rear suspension handling.

The change amazed me on the track after installing these. Best single
Upgrade you can make to the rear suspension for performance. Highly recommend these bushings.
 

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,621 Posts
Just ordered via PayPal. Merry Christmas Rudi. Been thinking about it for a while now. Thanks for the endorsement mdpsk.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
572 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Rudi is absolutely right that installing these very high quality uniball bushings will improve the rear suspension handling.

The change amazed me on the track after installing these. Best single
Upgrade you can make to the rear suspension for performance. Highly recommend these bushings.
I'm glad you like it and it's nice to hear a review from a fellow track user!

Just ordered via PayPal. Merry Christmas Rudi. Been thinking about it for a while now. Thanks for the endorsement mdpsk.
Thank you for your support. I'll have items dispatched by the end of this week.

What is a rough estimate of time to do the conversion?
For a skilled shop about 1/2h dissembling rear arms + 1/2h installing bushings + 1/2 assembling rear arms + 1/2h alignment.

It's DIY-able within a few hours, but hydraulic press is required and wheel alignment afterwards.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,839 Posts
You should sell some bushings for the front bushings also.
I bought a set of front replacement bushings from another vendor and then had my race shop mod my rear bushings using Delrin. So my effect is the same in the rear as yours but it would’ve been much cheaper to buy your bushings than what I paid my shop make the ones they did.

And I will wholeheartedly agree with you that getting rid of the slop in the bushings was absolutely a huge improvement. Although you’ve got to be ready to handle such a tight car and some street drivers might have some adjustment time getting used to it.

Something else I find interesting is that the Alfa Romeo Giulia is famous for how it turns in and handles. It is absolutely spectacular for a stock car. And I would compare that feeling to the mod you offer for the 4C. On my test drive with the Giulia on the very first turn I said “what the hell how can this car handle so tight, I had to pay good money to make my 4C handle like this”.

Also great driving in that video, really enjoyed it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
572 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
You should sell some bushings for the front bushings also.
I bought a set of front replacement bushings from another vendor and then had my race shop mod my rear bushings using Delrin. So my effect is the same in the rear as yours but it would’ve been much cheaper to buy your bushings than what I paid my shop make the ones they did.

And I will wholeheartedly agree with you that getting rid of the slop in the bushings was absolutely a huge improvement. Although you’ve got to be ready to handle such a tight car and some street drivers might have some adjustment time getting used to it.

Something else I find interesting is that the Alfa Romeo Giulia is famous for how it turns in and handles. It is absolutely spectacular for a stock car. And I would compare that feeling to the mod you offer for the 4C. On my test drive with the Giulia on the very first turn I said “what the hell how can this car handle so tight, I had to pay good money to make my 4C handle like this”.

Also great driving in that video, really enjoyed it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Once your current rear bushings wear out, you're welcome to try our solution, it's definitely even more rigid than Delrin - polyurethane option, so car would be even sharper, which is what a track driver like you would appreciate.

About the thing "getting used to tight car". I read a lot of comments that stock, flexible bushings are more forgiving etc. I cannot agree with that. The main reason stock cars use rubber bushings is only because of durability. Rubber takes bumps very well and it forms back to it's primary shape after taking an impact, so on bumpy roads you can drive tens of thousands of km without needing a replacement. The problem is that on performance cars it's usually the handling, we care about not the durability, so that's why rubber bushings have no place in performance car like 4C. The problem with polyurethane bushings is squealing and squeaking and still not very good rigidity. Plastic bushings have better rigidity but once they get an impact, they don't form back to it's primary shape. And then we have uniballs which are super rigid and have zero movement in unwanted directions, but they have a lifespan shorter than rubber bushings, especially if used on the bumpy roads. If you can accept the wear and costs of replacement, which honestly is much less than a set of tires and will probably last more than a few seasons, than this is the first upgrade you should go for. If you can't accept the wear factor, than don't even bother installing a coilovers, stickier tires etc., as you won't get the potential out of the car in the matter of fact, it will only make it worse, because more grip will cause even more play in the rear arms. I've tried it and it's a disappointing to drive to say at least.

First trackday with my stock 4C on a known track to me was nothing but a disappointment. I just couldn't drive it on the limit, because it was simply unpredictable and very unforgiving. I sorted out the bushings and suspension and the second time I went to the same track I felt connected with my car. Handling was exactly like it should be, razor sharp and predictable. I immediately felt times were going to be fast and they were. Same car, same track, dropped 9s on 4km long track, it was amazing. And the lap times varied about 0.5s / lap, which meant I was very consistent.

From performance point view, I am absolutely sure, that every car should be as precise and rigid as possible. The reason Lotus is famous for it's razor sharp handling is exactly the rigidity and solid mounting of suspension arms. It's something that engineers at 4C probably didn't even bother about. With long rear arm leverage like 4C has, every minor flex in the bushings causes a big difference at the wheel. I should have made the video with stock car being on the alignment rack, where I could just by hand, force the rear wheel to move -/+0°05', even though at the bushings you could barely see the movement. Now imagine the force that car takes through the sticky tires on the track to the rear arms. I believe that if we had the chance to measure the dynamic alignment changes with telemetry, it would be all over the specs. This is what makes car unpredictable, numb and impossible to drive on the limit and there is no other solution to fix this, than to get rid of the play in the rear arm bushings. It goes the same for the front end, but leverages here are much shorter, car weighs less and there are 4x bushings per wheel, rather than 2 per wheel at the rear, therefor it flexes way less, so changing front rubber bushings with uniballs does improve handling a bit, but nowhere near as it does at the rear end.

About the video. Previous video is more fun to watch because there is some action with chasing GT3's, which is something everyone likes, but driving wasn't optimal (coasting, early braking, sub-optimal lines). This video, without co-passenger and smoother driving, the times were about 2s/lap faster than the previous video with GT3's and you can see that car is very predictable and precise. I'm glad I don't have a video from driving this track with stock 4C, as I was all over the track fighting with it. :wink2:

https://youtu.be/RUCMhXpURqI?list=PLxIhBSpbDe7EJBZtMQt9bZaCrIHlJ4uyO
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
800 Posts
Hello,

I'll try to keep it short.

I loved my 4C since day one, but hated the handling from that day on. It kinda didn't match the looks, weight or engine performance of the car. From my point of view, handling was nothing less than disappointing. As I spend all of my money and even borrowed some for a brand new 4C, I just couldn't get past this disappointment so I was searching of a solution to this and here it is. Alfaworks front caster/camber plates fixed the front end, to get rid of tramlining, but the rear end was still a complete mess. Unpredictable, floaty and disconnected. Those of you who have ever driven Lotus, will know what I'm talking about. Those of you who didn't, give it a try, and trust me, you'll start to hate your 4C.

The good thing is that solution is now available to the public. Many of you have already noticed that we have developed a full uniball bushings conversion of rear arms for our 4C. Some of users have also installed and tried this mod, so I invite all of you who did, to share this sensation with other forum members here. I still believe it's the most important and cost effective handling upgrade to day. Even though it sound like a supershop ad, I hope it doesn't turn you off. Give it a try and I am absolutely sure, that those of you who are leaned more towards the perfromance driving won't regret it. At this point I'd really like to appeal to all of you, who are tracking your 4C to forget all the other modifications prior to sorting out the rubber bushings in the rear arms. Give a try to the uniball bushings, we've developed. It is, hands down, the most noticeable and cost effective mod you can make to get your 4C handle liek it should. It'll make your 4C shine from the handling point of view.

An here is the video proof, that car handles much better than stock now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIQBD_6-4-w

If anyone hasn't left a notice for a Santa Claus yet, here is the link: click

:smile2:

Regards,

Rudi
I appreciate that there are many 4C owners on here who track the cars and would maybe appreciate some mod to the rear suspension, but I'm an owner who, apart from having the Alfaworks front geometry mod, is very happy with the current rear suspension set up. I've been driven around a handling track by an ex F1 driver who had no problem driving the car around the track at amazing speeds so there can't much wrong with it. TBH, I was somewhat annoyed that someone who is promoting their own mod has posted on this forum that, basically, is insinuating that my car is [email protected] I'm also puzzled as to how a video can show how much better a car handles on track as a comparison with the original set up. From the subsequent posts there seems to be a lot of interest from tracking 4C owners which is fair enough and fully understandable, but don't tell me I will start to hate my 4C just because I don't fit this mod. I get all the enjoyment I need out of my car on the road. Just saying.:|

AlfaArnold
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
392 Posts
Ex-F1 drivers can do things in cars the rest of us can only dream of!

Rudi isn’t saying that you’ll hate the car, and that he loves it too. But he hates the handling. You can’t love the handling either or you wouldn’t have needed to invest in Jamie’s suspension changes.

Being a well-balanced Libran, I agree with you both. I love Alfa Romeo and my 4C, but also hate many elements of the suspension: the way it tracks camber changes is very frustrating (Jamie’s race blocks fitted and geometry set to his recommendations); the rear end is hairy on the track because it isn’t consistent - and Rudie (and Jamie) offer sensible solutions to this; and the spring rates and damping are not suited to quick motoring on less than perfect surfaces - and others here have expressed their suggestions to resolve this. Coming to think about it, I think it’s a very pretty car with less than stellar suspension. If I didnt love Alfa Romeo I probably wouldn’t have bought it, and as much as I love the car I hate the lousy, poorly controlled ride (on UK roads) which will be addressed in the New Year by changing the dampers, road springs, and by buying Rudie’s bushes.

That you get enjoyment is fantastic, but some (including me) get enjoyment tempered with frustration, and this forum is excellent at offering different solutions for people’s different needs.

Back to the topic.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
I also believe that out of the box the 4c handles poorly, at least when you consider that it's a 1000 Kg car with rear engine and CF chassis. However, i also consider that is extremely fun to drive in it's stock format and it's the kind of car that takes time to learn and understand.
By just changing the front and rear geometry you improve the car a lot (actually I believe this is the most effective and cheaper way to improve the car) --> It will not necessarily make it more fun to drive but just safer and faster.

I initially went to the racetrack with improved geometry on both ends.
After that I installed the front blocks from Jamie and rear uniballs from Rudy --> Now I just need a hot day to properly test the car. Personally I felt a big improvement with geometry settings and a minor one with uniballs, but conditions were not optimal for tracking the car --> I will report back in spring.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,119 Posts
Bottom line is I have never owned or driven a car that was perfect...including full race track only cars. A street car is always a bunch of compromises. Having owned and run a SCCA race car....ALFA GTV....I quickly realized my earlier statement. If you really want an all out race car you are better skipping ANY road car and focusing on a purpose built car like a spec racer. Drives better, easier to maintain, less hassle to do work on it, and haper in long run.
The bushing in this post sound like a good upgrade but concerned about their life. I do drive on bumpy roads at times. What do you think a reasonable life time mileage would be? I suspect that as they wear they also might get a lot noisier. And when installed to they telegraph a lot more road noise? Perhaps for combination of street and track use one of the harder elastomer inserts would be easier on the chassis and longer lived.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,839 Posts
I too was shocked by the words “hate the handling”. Too strong for sure. And although I mod my car I try to be sensitive about people that don’t because I know this car isn’t just for trackers and I think it’s an awesome car stock too!
There’s some things I dislike about my car but I would never use that word in front of her!!
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned!
And truthfully there’s nothing I really hate about the car at all.
Even those sun visors yikes, makes me strong!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
1 - 20 of 395 Posts
Top