[goldmax]

The 4C is apparently in there.

 

[alphaboy1]

No one can predict any market including the housing market. If this was the case, we would all be driving MC20's. I have seen his past videos and it's all speculation and primarily based on the recent sales on BAT which to me is worthless. It's like the local housing market... If you watch the news, they are saying it's starting to sink. This may be based on location, but my realtors are telling me that's not the case here outside of the NY area. We have lots of NY folks who are willing to pay over market value to get out of the city along with other areas. There is an extremely low inventory of houses similar to 4c's on the market which will drive the market steady or up. I am sure there will be the folks always looking for that bargain but like the housing market you go with the person who is willing to pay fair market value and that's fine because we are all looking for the best price when we shop for anything.

 

[OriginalForza]

Huh. I was unaware that the 4c sold in 2022... If he EVEN understand the definition of DEPRECIATION, an item no longer produced in any way/shape/form, especially one that is mathematically definable as a market rarity, CANNOT DEPRECIATE given it cannot be compared to it's own value. That's like saying the world depreciated because it went into apocalypse, therefore everything being "free", it all has reduced demand and value... LOL. For a tuber that has coherent and well thought out value posts, this one has me wondering what the hell he's talking about. As far as the US, the 4c has proven to lose no further than 50% of paid values even in accidents and multiple owners; also still trades on average at $65k today, which is basically msrp. Then I look at his numbers and wonder if he's pulling from 2018, since I haven't seen a $40k 4c for sale for years now, ignoring the fake ones I've already followed through on (here, "dealer fees" are whatever they want, which is how they get you once the deal is hot, and one 2018 spider, black, I was happy to sign for $42k and then the final bill turned out $58k...)

And then the i8... What the hell is he saying? I can buy a 50k mile i8 spider right now at a local dealer for $32k. A DEALER. Carfax shows clean. Of course I wouldn't even want one for more than free, which I would quickly use to learn if it can drift, which due to obvious physics and software, it can't, so then I would simply blow it up, or push it off a building into another BMW for YT views. How this list isn't all BMW's is factually wrong, and this dude hasn't been wrong since I started kinda following his values on Japanese cars.

 

[Max Tayant]

Huh. I was unaware that the 4c sold in 2022... If he EVEN understand the definition of DEPRECIATION, an item no longer produced in any way/shape/form, especially one that is mathematically definable as a market rarity, CANNOT DEPRECIATE given it cannot be compared to it's own value. That's like saying the world depreciated because it went into apocalypse, therefore everything being "free", it all has reduced demand and value... LOL. For a tuber that has coherent and well thought out value posts, this one has me wondering what the hell he's talking about. As far as the US, the 4c has proven to lose no further than 50% of paid values even in accidents and multiple owners; also still trades on average at $65k today, which is basically msrp. Then I look at his numbers and wonder if he's pulling from 2018, since I haven't seen a $40k 4c for sale for years now, ignoring the fake ones I've already followed through on (here, "dealer fees" are whatever they want, which is how they get you once the deal is hot, and one 2018 spider, black, I was happy to sign for $42k and then the final bill turned out $58k...)

And then the i8... What the hell is he saying? I can buy a 50k mile i8 spider right now at a local dealer for $32k. A DEALER. Carfax shows clean. Of course I wouldn't even want one for more than free, which I would quickly use to learn if it can drift, which due to obvious physics and software, it can't, so then I would simply blow it up, or push it off a building into another BMW for YT views. How this list isn't all BMW's is factually wrong, and this dude hasn't been wrong since I started kinda following his values on Japanese cars.

Something can be ultra rare (aka ultra low supply) but if none wants to buy it (aka ultra low demand) then the price will suffer, not everything rare is valuable, otherwise my nails clippings could be worth millions

 

[alphaboy1]

Another angle here... Just speculation again.
Is The Car Market Getting Any Better? - YouTube

 

[LP560-4C]

So he is a Professional Automotive Market Analyst ?
Funny, so Analyst is really a Professional term for Anal?
In that case, I can see why it's much better to be a Stock Market Analyst
If you're going to gamble, probably better to do it with real money. Kind of makes his information useless, or, "for entertainment purposes only"
Like this one:

 

[alphaboy1]

So he is a Professional Automotive Market Analyst ?
Funny, so Analyst is really a Professional term for Anal?
In that case, I can see why it's much better to be a Stock Market Analyst
If you're going to gamble, probably better to do it with real money. Kind of makes his information useless, or, "for entertainment purposes only"
Like this one:

I have seen several C8's being sold closer to MSRP these past few months thou with exception of the Z06 which is insane.

 

[chester]

I paid $57,000 usd for a 2016 one owner 20,000 mile RC car with an MSRP of $74,000 in August 2021.
My ongoing Car Gurus search indicates similar cars are now available for ~$50,000

No big deal. The dealer offer for my 2019 Cayman GTS has fallen from $89,000 to $71,000 during the same period.

The car shortage is over and interest rates are higher making payments much higher for those who buy cars with loans.

Nothing unusual or 4C centric going on.

 

[Antithos]

Could care less as I bought my car new and I have no intention of ever selling. To me this is the best value that I've ever gotten and truly one of the most rewarding cars that I've ever driven. So to me regardless of the value it's priceless.

 

[4Canada]

If the 4C’s value is falling to an excessive degree now (and I’m not sure I agree that it is), then it’s only because it caught more lift than other cars when the market went stupid at the start of 2021.

The analysis in the video link on alfaboy1’s post # 5 is interesting in that it seems to present some solid numbers re sales, prices, and also the lingering effect of chip shortages for various manufacturers.

The vehicle shortage (new and used) is far from over, although recovery is starting to happen. It is lumpy by make and region.

Certainly, dealers who purchased used vehicles 45 to 60 days ago are going to be feeling pressure right now. But I doubt the 4C’s retail value will ever drop to what they paid wholesale only a few months back. For more common cars, that will be a challenge!

 

[grj5]

The dealer offer for my 2019 Cayman GTS has fallen from $89,000 to $71,000 during the same period.

I wonder… Does that make you wish you’d sold it?

I wish, on some level, that I’d sold my Abarth this summer because the amount I’d have gotten would have been more than the insurance company is going to give me now as “fair market value”.

 

[chester]

I wonder… Does that make you wish you’d sold it?

I wish, on some level, that I’d sold my Abarth this summer because the amount I’d have gotten would have been more than the insurance company is going to give me now as “fair market value”.

No. I ordered the cayman in Miami blue with yellow stitching and manual transmission so it is tailored to me.

 

[mc1r]

Bought the top of the market, couldn’t be happier. YMMV.

 

[peterA116]

Bought my 2020 manufactured 11/2020 in Feb 21. Minor discount to MSRP. Don’t pay much attention to the up and down. Good time to buy. I am eyeballing a G-Quad right now. There is a 2017 (26,000 miles) on BaT right now and a 2019 (5,000 miles) nearby.

 

[OriginalForza]

Something can be ultra rare (aka ultra low supply) but if none wants to buy it (aka ultra low demand) then the price will suffer, not everything rare is valuable, otherwise my nails clippings could be worth millions

Did you just relate the 4c to nail clippings?🤦there was a little more work involved to make such a thing exist, you know... That's why you bought one and none of us want your clippings haha

So pls re read, I'm not talking about DEMAND, I'm talking about what the Tuber is talking about, apples to apples: "Depreciation: The term depreciation refers to an accounting method used to allocate the cost of a tangible or physical asset over its useful life. Depreciation represents how much of an asset's value has been used. It allows companies to earn revenue from the assets they own by paying for them over a certain period of time."

An asset that is no longer realistic to produce - as I would love to see a Manufacturer spawn a carbon tub ICE sports car for less than $100k and under 2500lbs even tomorrow before 2030 - is no longer depreciated as it no longer holds value relevance in the market... This is why a burnt potato chip or Szechuan Sauce packet can reach LOL numbers. Because of rarity, the entire model and idea of depreciation goes out the window.

I could go on, but given your super cool wheel mod, you can read up on depreciation in real life yourself just fine. My point will have a time where anyone that says otherwise will have to eat their words folded and up the wrong way because the 4c has an ace up it's sleeve and it ain't the engine, but the one part of any and every car that gets pushed along into the future: it's chassis and design.

Just ask the 911 if depreciation made sense for the 2004 Porsche Turbo S, 911R, etc, etc, etc... Or even Alfa Romeo in terms of the race cars and concepts they made. Most can't see it coming until it's obvious, and "fools rush in..." That's undepreciable wisdom as well😌

 

[Max Tayant]

Did you just relate the 4c to nail clippings?🤦there was a little more work involved to make such a thing exist, you know... That's why you bought one and none of us want your clippings haha

So pls re read, I'm not talking about DEMAND, I'm talking about what the Tuber is talking about, apples to apples: "Depreciation: The term depreciation refers to an accounting method used to allocate the cost of a tangible or physical asset over its useful life. Depreciation represents how much of an asset's value has been used. It allows companies to earn revenue from the assets they own by paying for them over a certain period of time."

An asset that is no longer realistic to produce - as I would love to see a Manufacturer spawn a carbon tub ICE sports car for less than $100k and under 2500lbs even tomorrow before 2030 - is no longer depreciated as it no longer holds value relevance in the market... This is why a burnt potato chip or Szechuan Sauce packet can reach LOL numbers. Because of rarity, the entire model and idea of depreciation goes out the window.

I could go on, but given your super cool wheel mod, you can read up on depreciation in real life yourself just fine. My point will have a time where anyone that says otherwise will have to eat their words folded and up the wrong way because the 4c has an ace up it's sleeve and it ain't the engine, but the one part of any and every car that gets pushed along into the future: it's chassis and design.

Just ask the 911 if depreciation made sense for the 2004 Porsche Turbo S, 911R, etc, etc, etc... Or even Alfa Romeo in terms of the race cars and concepts they made. Most can't see it coming until it's obvious, and "fools rush in..." That's undepreciable wisdom as well😌

I’m sorry to have to disagree. In our economic world, you cannot disassociate demand from supply in order to establish pricing. As rare as our cars are, I don’t believe too many people want them (yet). Otherwise they’d climb in value much more. This day will come, it’ll probably take a couple more YouTuber a la Rob Perreti to talk about our cars to make them much more desirable than they are now

 

[ALPHAmole]

What a crackhead. ALL used car prices are falling, but to say that rare high end sportscars or that the C8 prices are falling "off a cliff" is a great exaggeration.

The 4C likely is worth less now than it was a few months ago, but it's a car with limited numbers and configurations available. Assuming you bought at a reasonable price (which I believe my wife did, since it was purchased for several thousand under the lowest price that Spiders have "fallen to" currently on his chart) it's not losing value as fast as many cars are in the current market. His numbers clearly don't take into account the mileage, condition, options, etc...and he just breaks it down into spiders and coupes.

As for the C8, to say prices are "falling off a cliff" is a completely false statement. Clearly this guy knows nothing about the actual cars, pricing with various options and features, OR the actual prices that they're selling for currently, since he states convertible prices have "fallen" to the $105k range. ALL cars new and used have taken a hit due to interest rates and the economy, and in the case of the C8 you can see older used cars selling for under MSRP now (which is how it always should have been) and dealers are unable to mark up new ones for $30k over MSRP any more. In fact you can find some new ones at MSRP on small dealer lots now, where the only way to buy at MSRP a year ago was to get on a list of one of the big east coast dealers and wait a year. If his chart shows used C8 convertible prices are "falling off a cliff" at $105k, and you can buy a new highly optioned Stingray convertible with full factory warranty and no miles on it for under $100 MSRP, then his facts are extremely skewed. Honestly, I think prices are worse than his charts represent and there are many used C8s selling for less right now (still selling for far more than what I'd be willing to pay)

The videos are trash. There's not really any solid info provided, and the titles are just there for click bait.

Yes, car prices are falling and there's big depreciation right now on used cars where (due to low supply and high demand) they were selling for close to (or above) MSRP a year ago.
Used cars will continue to depreciate. I've never bought any vehicle as an investment, but have bought desirable cars that are optioned out how I like them, so depreciation usually isn't as bad as your typical family car would be.

 

[borocouncilman]

His videos and analysis are quite solid.

The reality of the 4C market is that during much of the past 3 years, there were less than a dozen of them for sale at any given time in the entire United States. At the moment, on Cargurus, there are 52 cars for sale with half of those cars being on the market 90 days or more. They're not selling quickly like they were during the pandemic and this brings down values. On Bring a Trailer, transaction prices have dropped like 20% for the 4C over the past year.

While Elon Musk likes to blame interest rates, I don't think that auto loan interest rates of around 6% are giving anyone pause on making a car purchase. During the pandemic, a lot of car buyers did the YOLO (you only live once) spending approach on collectible cars and being unable to travel or spend money, demand for cars, watches, etc skyrocketed. Consumers spent more on cars than they normally would. We're coming down from that now and getting back to the normal world where cars are indeed again depreciating assets.

Other collectible sports cars have experienced similar declines in terms of dollars. For the 4C, given the lower cost of entry, those dollars reflect a bigger portion of the overall price. That's how it ends up on this YouTuber's list. Four Wheel Trader has previously praised the 4C as an excellent investment. From prior videos, it's clear that he loves the little Alfa.

There's some anecdotal evidence suggesting that people who bought high are trying to unload their cars now that depreciation is a real thing again. You're seeing a lot of this with Porsche now as dealers suddenly have a bunch of used 911s to sell. For people looking for watches, that market has been changing as well. Heck, even RVs are coming on the market in the same manner for the same reasons.

After we watched this video in our house, my wife quipped that Alfa values have nose-dived ever since I lost mine in the freak dealer accident. "You're just not posting 4C pictures to Instagram anymore and you're hurting the 4C market". LOL

I never expect cars to be an investment. The ROI on a car is how much fun that you can have with it on the road. The 4C ROI is pretty awesome.

 

[ALPHAmole]

His videos and analysis are quite solid.

So you're agreeing with him that the C8 market is "falling off a cliff"?

Sure, prices have fallen, but the reality is that we're seeing used and new car pricing and depreciation approach what it's traditionally been in the past.

There is a shocking number of 4Cs on the market, and pricing has dropped, although mostly for higher mileage older examples which should be expected. I think we're seeing the effects of a big dump of 4Cs that have gone off warranty and require expensive maintenance visits. Is it REALLY one of the fastest depreciating cars now though, or is pricing just moving toward where it traditionally should have been anyway for a 6 year old vehicle?

 

[borocouncilman]

So you're agreeing with him that the C8 market is "falling off a cliff"?

Sure, prices have fallen, but the reality is that we're seeing used and new car pricing and depreciation approach what it's traditionally been in the past.

There is a shocking number of 4Cs on the market, and pricing has dropped, although mostly for higher mileage older examples which should be expected. I think we're seeing the effects of a big dump of 4Cs that have gone off warranty and require expensive maintenance visits. Is it REALLY one of the fastest depreciating cars now though, or is pricing just moving toward where it traditionally should have been anyway for a 6 year old vehicle?

Corvettes never hold their value. With the announcement of the Z06, there’s now a glut of early adopter Stingrays on the market. We’re just a couple years away from picking up a C8 Stingray for $40k, because this is the standard Corvette depreciation curve. The C8 seemed like an exception initially, because demand was so high. It’s shown itself to be like every other Corvette. So, yes, off a cliff like every other Vette.

4C maintenance is super cheap compared to actual exotics. If you’re expecting Honda Civic like maintenance, sure, it may seem expensive, but there’s nothing that go wrong with a 4C that will bankrupt/financial ruin the average buyer. The same can’t be said for other carbon fiber tub cars like the McLaren or even a BMW i8.

A $10-15k downward price swing on a six figure 911 is a smaller percentage than the same dollar swing that the 4C is experiencing. As someone who had his 4C totaled in the custody of my dealer back in October, the fair market value that I received for the car then was substantially higher than it would be today. Even then, that payment was less than what someone offered me during the summer when I decided to turn them down and keep the car. I was watching values very carefully to make sure that I didn’t get screwed by the dealer with this accident — they took good care of me.

I bought my fully loaded 2016 4C Spider in January 2017 as a brand new leftover. To move the car, the dealer made me an offer that I couldn’t refuse — $15k below MSRP. I got to drive the car for almost six years and over 20k miles. The delta between what I paid for it new and what I got from the incident was around $5k. I miss the car, but I am not bitter. That’s a modest amount of dollars for the level of fun that I had with my 4C Spider. Had I sold it in the summer of 2022, I would have made money on the experience. For a car that I purchased new, not a bad deal at all.