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What don't you understand. FCA cut costs and put in a cheap worthless TPMS system in the 4C. It was probably an afterthought.
 

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They could have used the Fiat 500 TPMS. They used the mirrors and brake light switch.
 

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Not having much experience of TPMS I checked on what systems are in use at the moment. Apparently there is indirect (rotational difference) and direct (pressure montoring) and I'm not sure which system the 4C has. My TPMS light came on when I had a slow puncture in the nearside rear so I found it very useful. Can anyone confirm which system on the 4C we are talking about?

AlfaArnold
 

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It was probably an afterthought.
It was not an afterthought. Since 2013 all new cars sold in EU have to have tire pressure monitoring system installed. No exceptions, even the cheapest cars sold in EU have to have it by law. This law was announced years before it came into effect.
 

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Not having much experience of TPMS I checked on what systems are in use at the moment. Apparently there is indirect (rotational difference) and direct (pressure montoring) and I'm not sure which system the 4C has. My TPMS light came on when I had a slow puncture in the nearside rear so I found it very useful. Can anyone confirm which system on the 4C we are talking about?

AlfaArnold
My guess is the rotational type.

When it does tell me I have a a low tire is usually right after I start driving, not just before when I first start the engine.

When I add air to the tire, it continues to tell me it's still low until after I've driven a short distance.
 

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It was not an afterthought. Since 2013 all new cars sold in EU have to have tire pressure monitoring system installed. No exceptions, even the cheapest cars sold in EU have to have it by law. This law was announced years before it came into effect.
And in the USA, the probable target market of the 4C, since 2007!
 

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My guess is the rotational type.

When it does tell me I have a a low tire is usually right after I start driving, not just before when I first start the engine.

When I add air to the tire, it continues to tell me it's still low until after I've driven a short distance.
My guess would be "direct", as indirect (rotational type) works on the same wheel speed sensors used by the ABS and other stability controls. Our cars have the sensors in the wheel/tire capsule, and hence require new ones programmed when you change wheels, don't they? That would mean direct (pressure sensor) type.
 

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My guess would be "direct", as indirect (rotational type) works on the same wheel speed sensors used by the ABS and other stability controls. Our cars have the sensors in the wheel/tire capsule, and hence require new ones programmed when you change wheels, don't they? That would mean direct (pressure sensor) type.
correct
our system uses the pressure sensors in the valve stems of the wheels
the issue is not the sensors themselves
its the control unit for them that sucks
those sensors are used by most manufacturers now

here is a quote from the elec manual

"The system comprises a control unit and four transmission sensors located in the tyre on the wheel rim which send signals to four receiver aerials."
 

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my question remains
when does the system tell you one tire is low on pressure (which I have seen myself)
and when does it say "tire pressure system unavailable", then stop working altogether (which I have seen as well)
 

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my question remains
when does the system tell you one tire is low on pressure (which I have seen myself)
and when does it say "tire pressure system unavailable", then stop working altogether (which I have seen as well)


It's not a real good system so don't count on it being super reliable.

When it tells you one tire is low that means the system is working properly and means exactly what it looks like, that one tire is low (or possibly too high).

When it says system is unavailable that means The car's communication system is not communicating with a sensor(s).

With stock rims and stock tire sensors usually not a problem. Whenever you change your tires you will get some error messages but after driving about 15 minutes everything should go away.

I put on a track rim tire set up with aftermarket sensors and it didn't work or I should say it didn't work continuously it was intermittently working.

I made the vendor that sold me these aftermarket tire sensors to take them back and I bought the more expensive stock ones. But I have yet to put them in these aftermarket rims and see if they work. But I am suspecting that they will work.

If you have stock rims and stock sensors just take the car to the dealer as you either have a bad sensor (or dead battery in the sensor) or a bad communication system.

Hope this helps you
 

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It's not a real good system so don't count on it being super reliable.

When it tells you one tire is low that's exactly what it means.

When it says system is unavailable that means it's not communicating properly with the sensor(s).

With stock rims and stock tire sensors usually not a problem. Whenever you change your tires you will get some messages but after driving about 15 minutes everything should go away.

I put on a track rim tire set up with aftermarket sensors and it didn't work or I should say it didn't work continuously it was intermittently working.

I made the vendor that sold me these aftermarket tire sensors to take them back and I bought the more expensive stock ones. But I have yet to put them in these aftermarket rims and see if they work. But I am suspecting that they will work.

If you have stock rims and stock sensors just take the car to the dealer as you either have a bad sensor (or dead battery in the sensor) or a bad communication system.

Hope this helps you
I have!
I have taken it to 2 dealers, 2 attempts each
every time they reset the system, which makes everything work
then a few days/weeks later I get the tire pressure system unavailable

the only fix I have found so far, is the other day I adjusted all 4 tires to 40psi
and suddenly the system started working again, and I get the OK next to each tire on the display
I have since then lowered them to 30-32, and today I tried the oem 26/29 and the error message still hasn't come back
so it seems filling them with air makes the TPMS unavailable error go away
 

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I have!
I have taken it to 2 dealers, 2 attempts each
every time they reset the system, which makes everything work
then a few days/weeks later I get the tire pressure system unavailable

the only fix I have found so far, is the other day I adjusted all 4 tires to 40psi
and suddenly the system started working again, and I get the OK next to each tire on the display
I have since then lowered them to 30-32, and today I tried the oem 26/29 and the error message still hasn't come back
so it seems filling them with air makes the TPMS unavailable error go away

Yes it is not the best system. Seems that you have figured out a way to make it work though. Great job and I hope it stays working.

You might also try disconnecting the battery for 30 minutes and then hooking it back up. This car needs to be reset every once in a while.

Anyway you got it working by being a detective/scientist good job!! Another example of necessity being the mother of invention!
 

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kmarei, it seems to me that the no-communication problem can only be caused by:
- one or more defective sensors (calibration, battery, intermittent output for some unknown reason).
- the computer responsible for processing the information being defective (calibration, bad ground, or loses its memory perhaps?).
- whatever antennae captures the signal is damaged, or the wiring from these to the computer has a fault.
- RF interference from some other electronic device in the car - I can't recall right now, did you have a wireless backup camera or any other aftermarket electronics installed? Of course, interference could also come from some nearby bad connection in the stock wiring of almost any system in the car.

Don't take this the wrong way but personally, I wouldn't waste much time asking others here for a fix, or complaining to us either. One of your dealerships has to take this to the next level - either figure out which of the sensors isn't working (I'm thinking that if one does not communicate properly, it might take the whole system down with the error message you see), or replace all 4 sensors. If that doesn't work, then they need to replace the antennae, wiring, or whatever computer inside the car that receives and processes the information. This has to be a warranty issue, and resetting it is not (obviously) a lasting fix. Neither is the battery reset. You shouldn't have to do either, or suffer through this any longer.

One or more sensors might be defective, and somehow became activated with the over-pressure. Not knowing how the reporting works, I can't say. If it is analogue, then the "volume" of the signal might just have been loud enough to be heard at 40PSI. So, is the sensor too "quiet" to be heard at lower PSI, or is the car too "deaf" to hear it, or is there "ambient noise" that prevents it from hearing clearly? If it is digital (has anyone been able to get more detailed readings as to pressure or temperature off these - which would suggest digital? I seem to recall someone, heelntoe maybe, trying this), then there is either a signal or no signal, but the sudden appearance of a signal at 40PSI (which, to me should have given you a warning instead of an "OK"), makes this really confusing to troubleshoot from my armchair.

The successful reset raises yet more questions. Since resetting the system lasts only for a period of time (days to weeks), it seems more likely to be a problem with the car side of the electronics - I think that the sensors do send a signal, and I'm sure the "reset" affects only the car side of the equation, not each individual wheel sensor. So that suggests the fault is more likely antenna, wiring, computer, or interference from somewhere in the car. The antennae and the wires should not be fixed by a simple system "reset", so I'd rule that out. How do they perform this (wirelessly, plug something into the OBDII port, or into a wiring harness inside the car)? if they plug into a wiring harness somewhere, then that harness could have a bad connection. It more and more seems to point to whatever computer is involved. So, the computer itself, its wiring harness maybe, a faulty ground, all come to mind as possibilities. Some of these aren't affected by a reset, but it may be that it takes a while for the issue / communication errors to build up again (much like restarting your PC will fix some nagging issues for a while).

I don't know that your experience proves that the system used by Alfa Romeo is poor. It might be, but the problem doesn't seem to be an epidemic in the way you'd expect if that were the case.

I wish you good luck in getting it sorted, though! And please let us know how it progresses.
 

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I've never experienced the lack of communication thing. When I had the OEM tires on the car, one had a slooow leak. About every five weeks I'd get the low tire message. It was always the same tire and always one or one point five pounds low. Usually I had to fill it to one pound over before the system would shut up.

After the Pirellis wore out and got replaced, I don't think I've seen a low tire warning. It's been quite a few months now.

I'm making an educated guess that something in your system is faulty and the dealer hasn't found it yet. Next time it tells you that it can't communicate, take it to the dealer without changing anything.

And call FCA and make a formal complaint. Make sure FCA understands the history involved and that you WANT IT FIXED. FCA will want to know the work order number. It should be on the contract your dealer gave you.
 

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I read in a ALFA factory article once that if the tire monitor comes on....you can fill the tire but it won't reset the monitor and remove the error for a few miles. As mentioned earlier it seems that putting extra air in the tires will reset it and than you can go back to the recommended pressure. I have accumulated something like 6 various air pressure gauges over the years. By far the most accurate ones are the ones with a Bourdon Tube which has a analog round dial readout. Don't make the mistake of getting one that covers a huge range of tire pressure. They are more accurate if you get one that that has a max of a few more pounds than you need for most tires....no more than 60#. There are some for up around 150# but those are designed for special commercial vehicles with higher tire pressures. A good source is Tire Rack...they have a couple of models from around $20 to $50 or so. If you have access to SnapOn they have a very good one also...but expensive. You want to look for one that states what standard it is measured to. Generally they are plus or minus 1# and grade B...but I have found that the ones I have are dead on. Those pencil type gauges may be OK but I have found that unless they are made in the US the quality and accuracy is all over the map. I also bought a fairly expensive tire fill attachment for my air compressor. It has a sliding piston type measuring gauge. It looks great but it reads high so if I go by the gauge it will be 4# underinflated....so not happy about that. I just remarked the gauge with a permanent marker. I am probably going to contact the manufacturer to complain. Since I have two dead on gauges I occasionally will compare the two of them to make sure they are still in top condition.
 

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kmarei, it seems to me that the no-communication problem can only be caused by:
- one or more defective sensors (calibration, battery, intermittent output for some unknown reason).
- the computer responsible for processing the information being defective (calibration, bad ground, or loses its memory perhaps?).
- whatever antennae captures the signal is damaged, or the wiring from these to the computer has a fault.
- RF interference from some other electronic device in the car - I can't recall right now, did you have a wireless backup camera or any other aftermarket electronics installed? Of course, interference could also come from some nearby bad connection in the stock wiring of almost any system in the car.

Don't take this the wrong way but personally, I wouldn't waste much time asking others here for a fix, or complaining to us either. One of your dealerships has to take this to the next level - either figure out which of the sensors isn't working (I'm thinking that if one does not communicate properly, it might take the whole system down with the error message you see), or replace all 4 sensors. If that doesn't work, then they need to replace the antennae, wiring, or whatever computer inside the car that receives and processes the information. This has to be a warranty issue, and resetting it is not (obviously) a lasting fix. Neither is the battery reset. You shouldn't have to do either, or suffer through this any longer.

One or more sensors might be defective, and somehow became activated with the over-pressure. Not knowing how the reporting works, I can't say. If it is analogue, then the "volume" of the signal might just have been loud enough to be heard at 40PSI. So, is the sensor too "quiet" to be heard at lower PSI, or is the car too "deaf" to hear it, or is there "ambient noise" that prevents it from hearing clearly? If it is digital (has anyone been able to get more detailed readings as to pressure or temperature off these - which would suggest digital? I seem to recall someone, heelntoe maybe, trying this), then there is either a signal or no signal, but the sudden appearance of a signal at 40PSI (which, to me should have given you a warning instead of an "OK"), makes this really confusing to troubleshoot from my armchair.

The successful reset raises yet more questions. Since resetting the system lasts only for a period of time (days to weeks), it seems more likely to be a problem with the car side of the electronics - I think that the sensors do send a signal, and I'm sure the "reset" affects only the car side of the equation, not each individual wheel sensor. So that suggests the fault is more likely antenna, wiring, computer, or interference from somewhere in the car. The antennae and the wires should not be fixed by a simple system "reset", so I'd rule that out. How do they perform this (wirelessly, plug something into the OBDII port, or into a wiring harness inside the car)? if they plug into a wiring harness somewhere, then that harness could have a bad connection. It more and more seems to point to whatever computer is involved. So, the computer itself, its wiring harness maybe, a faulty ground, all come to mind as possibilities. Some of these aren't affected by a reset, but it may be that it takes a while for the issue / communication errors to build up again (much like restarting your PC will fix some nagging issues for a while).

I don't know that your experience proves that the system used by Alfa Romeo is poor. It might be, but the problem doesn't seem to be an epidemic in the way you'd expect if that were the case.

I wish you good luck in getting it sorted, though! And please let us know how it progresses.
I've already had the central brain changed, due to this drop in communication
which helped for a few weeks, but the same issue came back
it might have only gone away because they had reset the system.

after wasting my time 4 times, and trying 2 different dealers
I am no longer interested in using my car to teach the dealers how to do their job
honestly, so far, the 2 dealers I have used are the worst I have dealt with in all the cars I have owned
Chrysler, bmw, audi were all much better

till now they can't diagnose the squeaky sound that comes out of the front left suspension (and yes I have had the suspension recall done)
and they can't diagnose the TPMS system unavailable error either (and yes I have had the TSB done for the TPMS)

and I've lost interest in trying to fix these
I can always check the tire pressure myself, I always have on all my cars
and the squeak is not as noticeable when I have the music turned up :)

unless it's something major, I want to stay far away from the dealers
 

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kmarei, it seems to me that the no-communication problem can only be caused by:
- one or more defective sensors (calibration, battery, intermittent output for some unknown reason).
- the computer responsible for processing the information being defective (calibration, bad ground, or loses its memory perhaps?).
- whatever antennae captures the signal is damaged, or the wiring from these to the computer has a fault.
- RF interference from some other electronic device in the car - I can't recall right now, did you have a wireless backup camera or any other aftermarket electronics installed? Of course, interference could also come from some nearby bad connection in the stock wiring of almost any system in the car.

Don't take this the wrong way but personally, I wouldn't waste much time asking others here for a fix, or complaining to us either. One of your dealerships has to take this to the next level - either figure out which of the sensors isn't working (I'm thinking that if one does not communicate properly, it might take the whole system down with the error message you see), or replace all 4 sensors. If that doesn't work, then they need to replace the antennae, wiring, or whatever computer inside the car that receives and processes the information. This has to be a warranty issue, and resetting it is not (obviously) a lasting fix. Neither is the battery reset. You shouldn't have to do either, or suffer through this any longer.

One or more sensors might be defective, and somehow became activated with the over-pressure. Not knowing how the reporting works, I can't say. If it is analogue, then the "volume" of the signal might just have been loud enough to be heard at 40PSI. So, is the sensor too "quiet" to be heard at lower PSI, or is the car too "deaf" to hear it, or is there "ambient noise" that prevents it from hearing clearly? If it is digital (has anyone been able to get more detailed readings as to pressure or temperature off these - which would suggest digital? I seem to recall someone, heelntoe maybe, trying this), then there is either a signal or no signal, but the sudden appearance of a signal at 40PSI (which, to me should have given you a warning instead of an "OK"), makes this really confusing to troubleshoot from my armchair.

The successful reset raises yet more questions. Since resetting the system lasts only for a period of time (days to weeks), it seems more likely to be a problem with the car side of the electronics - I think that the sensors do send a signal, and I'm sure the "reset" affects only the car side of the equation, not each individual wheel sensor. So that suggests the fault is more likely antenna, wiring, computer, or interference from somewhere in the car. The antennae and the wires should not be fixed by a simple system "reset", so I'd rule that out. How do they perform this (wirelessly, plug something into the OBDII port, or into a wiring harness inside the car)? if they plug into a wiring harness somewhere, then that harness could have a bad connection. It more and more seems to point to whatever computer is involved. So, the computer itself, its wiring harness maybe, a faulty ground, all come to mind as possibilities. Some of these aren't affected by a reset, but it may be that it takes a while for the issue / communication errors to build up again (much like restarting your PC will fix some nagging issues for a while).

I don't know that your experience proves that the system used by Alfa Romeo is poor. It might be, but the problem doesn't seem to be an epidemic in the way you'd expect if that were the case.

I wish you good luck in getting it sorted, though! And please let us know how it progresses.
I've never experienced the lack of communication thing. When I had the OEM tires on the car, one had a slooow leak. About every five weeks I'd get the low tire message. It was always the same tire and always one or one point five pounds low. Usually I had to fill it to one pound over before the system would shut up.

After the Pirellis wore out and got replaced, I don't think I've seen a low tire warning. It's been quite a few months now.

I'm making an educated guess that something in your system is faulty and the dealer hasn't found it yet. Next time it tells you that it can't communicate, take it to the dealer without changing anything.

And call FCA and make a formal complaint. Make sure FCA understands the history involved and that you WANT IT FIXED. FCA will want to know the work order number. It should be on the contract your dealer gave you.
that's the weird thing
I have seen that single tire low warning
but I am dying to find out why sometimes you get an individual warning
and other times I get the TPMS unavailable
I will get the special cable needed to get the alfaodb app to read the tire pressure system
and will try to figure out what causes this
worst case, I will be able to reset the system myself, without needing to go to the dealer
 

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Sorta on topic regarding the TPMS. None of my four sensors indicated low pressure (all have consistently indicated "OK"). But I checked the pressures with an accurate gauge yesterday, and all four tires were 5 psi low. The sensors in my wheels (3/15 build date) are definitely not too sensitive.
Jim
 
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