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I do not understand "Not all the same"?

But yes, it must be quite a lot difference between the cars, however it seems that you are one of the lucky guys, good for you. If you run 17/18" thats a big difference/advantage as well. Unfortunately, 18/19" combo is how mine was delivered, even my trackday 17/18" semi slicks are more comfortable than OEM 18/19".

So for us not so lucky guys, 2x15mm spacer is worth testing out to resolve tramlining. Honesty, I've been wondering about removing AW blocks(decrease caster) and see how OEM with rear spacer works, might be perfect for me.
I have both 17/18 and 18/19.

Jeff
 

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Gents,
I can reveal that, at least for my car, there was a surprisingly simple solution for the hopeless tramlining: 15mm rear spacers, one at each side.

My car during the test had:
OEM 18/19" combo
OEM Pirelli AR
AW intermediate spacers(but now uprated to race for more camber)
1mm toe in on each side
I have not tried car without AW spacers, had them installed before I picked up the car. Even with these, tramlining was close to intolerable.

After installation, nothing else changed, it was more or less gone, by that I mean it was feeling like a normal sports car, tendency, but far from intolerable. On top of that, I did not notice downsides at trackday, possibly better handling, something that surprised me. So for now, no downsides, and I have been running it for 3-4000km. I also have fellow 4C owner with 17/18" who did it, and it was better, but difference maybe not as huge as mine.

Have thought long and hard why, not that it matters since result is good, but my hypothesis is:
Outside of rear rubber is now approx 10mm outside front. This mean that front used to be 10mm outside. On a uneven road, this will cause front wheels to start climbing before rear, and by that steering will be self amplifying.

But this should be tested by more owners before we can say that it's a general fix.

EDIT:
I tested and ran mostly of the 3-4000km with Pirelli AR (OEM) tires.
Recently I changed to Michelin Pilot Sport 4, hoped for a further improvement. Actually I did not notice a big improvement in tramlining, but they are better and more comfortable.
Also running 15mm [email protected] the back only. Stock alignment and stock 18/19 inch AR Pirelli's.
Tramlining is really less !! Probably the widened track @ the back.... Car feels indeed softer @ the back (don’t like it) and it's not as direct for steering into a corner.... (don't like that also)
Butt dyno says: more comfortable and less hardcore (darty)....
 

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Just to follow up on this thread, there was a similar thread discussing this and it does appear rear only spacers may truly make a difference in this area (i.e. actual data):

 
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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
As mentioned, I was very good at only changing one thing at the time, then test. There was a immediate difference. It would make the rear a bit softer, so maybe not to everyone’s liking, honestly I did not notice. But at track, there is no understeer(0 front toe, a bit more than -1.6° camber), just turn, and it bites.
 

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Just to follow up on this thread, there was a similar thread discussing this and it does appear rear only spacers may truly make a difference in this area (i.e. actual data):
As mentioned, I was very good at only changing one thing at the time, then test. There was a immediate difference. It would make the rear a bit softer, so maybe not to everyone’s liking, honestly I did not notice. But at track, there is no understeer(0 front toe, a bit more than -1.6° camber), just turn, and it bites.
This is my stock alignment.... Not so good.... Need that adjusted. But the rear spacers made a difference...
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Hi guys I thought i would put my information on here.
My car had front race blocks installed when i purchased the car. The previous owner told me it cured the "tramlining". Im not sure if he knew what he was doing but when i did a wheel alignment on the car it was miles off.
So the car tramlined dangerously when i got it so i thought best to start with a wheel alignment and some new tyres. I put re71s 215/40/18s and 245/35/19s. The tyres helped the car alot overall. Tramlining was still there but not as dangerous.
Anyway i did a track day and as we adjusted the tyre pressures accordingly the tramlining did improve but its still there.
So overall it 70% better than when i first started. Caster is about 5.5,
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camber is -1.5 and toe - 1.5
Not sure what my next move is. Not sure if i should install.spacers in the rear?
 

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Thanks, would be great if it could solve the problem for others.

It would be interesting regarding hypothesis if you bothered measuring the distance from outer edge of wheels and compare front and rear. I simply measured with a measuring tape and aimed along the wheel with a camera, then zoomed to see the number. So very poor accuracy, I would expect ±5mm, but nevertheless an indication. My result was:
Front: 1847mm
Rear: 1869mm

Whatever that is in inches and fractions.....:p
My car is 1859 front and 1838 rear!
 

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Hi guys I thought i would put my information on here.
My car had front race blocks installed when i purchased the car. The previous owner told me it cured the "tramlining". Im not sure if he knew what he was doing but when i did a wheel alignment on the car it was miles off.
So the car tramlined dangerously when i got it so i thought best to start with a wheel alignment and some new tyres. I put re71s 215/40/18s and 245/35/19s. The tyres helped the car alot overall. Tramlining was still there but not as dangerous.
Anyway i did a track day and as we adjusted the tyre pressures accordingly the tramlining did improve but its still there.
So overall it 70% better than when i first started. Caster is about 5.5, View attachment 123282
camber is -1.5 and toe - 1.5
Not sure what my next move is. Not sure if i should install.spacers in the rear?
Just measured the wheelbase
Front 1859mm
Rear 1838mm
I wonder if thats the problem?.
 

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Just measured the wheelbase
Front 1859mm
Rear 1838mm
I wonder if thats the problem?.
Zero your front toe at the very least. Go a little positive if needed. It’ll make it better. You really don’t want to eliminate it. On the track it’s not an issue and you don’t do 200 (usually) on public roads. When I had negative front toe I couldn’t go within a couple metres of the edge of the track at the bottom end of the main straight at Eastern Creek for fear of the car darting off the track before turning into the sweeper. Not pleasant. Now, no such issue.
 

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Just measured the wheelbase
Front 1859mm
Rear 1838mm
I wonder if thats the problem?.
Yes, widen the track @ the rear. You can try by buying some spacers for the rear and test. If you do'nt like them, it's easy to go back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
Not sure what my next move is. Not sure if i should install.spacers in the rear?
Missed this. As written in thread, this is what cured the issue for me.

So if you ask me, this would be the next logical step to try. Easy to test as well.
 

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Missed this. As written in thread, this is what cured the issue for me.

So if you ask me, this would be the next logical step to try. Easy to test as well.
Missed this. As written in thread, this is what cured the issue for me.

So if you ask me, this would be the next logical step to try. Easy to test as well.
Ordered 20mm spacers a couple of days ago.
Will let you know
 

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For some reason I thought spacers were illegal in Oz? Be keen to see what happens when you receive them (y)
I thought so too. I’d be experimenting with zero toe and a set of Michelins. In fact, zero toe worked pretty well for me. Not completely inert but good up to any reasonable road speed you’d care to mention. Uniballs help heaps with cornering confidence too.
 

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I thought so too. I’d be experimenting with zero toe and a set of Michelins. In fact, zero toe worked pretty well for me. Not completely inert but good up to any reasonable road speed you’d care to mention. Uniballs help heaps with cornering confidence too.
Have you installed the suspension block geometry kit from Alfaworks or a other supplier?
 

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Have you installed the suspension block geometry kit from Alfaworks or a other supplier?
No, I didn’t see the need. A little kick or twitch here or there doesn’t bother me. I have added shims to increase front negative camber to -1.7 deg. With toe-out the turn-in point at turn 1 at Eastern Creek was terrifying, as it would dart left or right unpredictably and all happening at over 160km/h. Now, with zero toe, it’s not a problem.
My track tyres are Hankook R-S4s and I had the fronts shaved.
 

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No, I didn’t see the need. A little kick or twitch here or there doesn’t bother me. I have added shims to increase front negative camber to -1.7 deg. With toe-out the turn-in point at turn 1 at Eastern Creek was terrifying, as it would dart left or right unpredictably and all happening at over 160km/h. Now, with zero toe, it’s not a problem.
My track tyres are Hankook R-S4s and I had the fronts shaved.
Thats what my car does now.
I will reduce the toe to zero and try that.
 

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Well the test drive was great. Wasn't sure what to expect. I can definitely feel the difference much more confidence inspiring. Tramlining would be 80% less in the twisties. Can still feel it at times in the freeway. So not sure if it was the zero toe or the wheel spacers.
 

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Well the test drive was great. Wasn't sure what to expect. I can definitely feel the difference much more confidence inspiring. Tramlining would be 80% less in the twisties. Can still feel it at times in the freeway. So not sure if it was the zero toe or the wheel spacers.
widen track @ rear reduce tramlining. How is your feeling in the back? Softer? Steering less agressive?
 
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