Wow. Bad day. Hope they figure it out quickly, and hope that the guy who drove into the back of you brings you many gifts...
Transmission Failure
Hi all,
My 4C LE (Australian spec) has ~5,000km and recently started to develop some intermittent transmission fault codes.
Whilst driving in sometimes cool (22degC) sometime warm (35degC) conditions generally always in low load conditions (cruising around 80km/h) the car would throw a check transmission error on the display and advise that manual mode was not available. I would see the 'gear ring' symbol lit and the car would proceed in automatic mode (i generally drive in natural / manual mode) . This would last maybe 5-10 secs and the error would often disappear. No noticeable change in shift quality or any other noticeable fault with the car.
This had become progressively worse over the last 4-5 weeks, (the car has not be driven often as I work interstate during the week) to the point that on the last few occasions the car would be stuck in 3rd gear and only change into neutral once the car was stationary. Again, this would clear itself generally with the last occasion requiring to switch off the car and restart to clear the fault. On each occasion the car would be fine for the trip home and the fault would only appear once and only intermittently.
The problem has been such that I haven't trusted to take the car on any long trips, instead hoping to see a more conclusive failure close to home where a recovery service was going to be easy to arrange.
As it would happen, last Thursday there was finally a more serious fault. The car did the same thing as described above, on down change (manual, natural) from 4th to 3rd the check transmission fault appeared and the car was stuck in 3rd gear. I coasted to the first set of lights which were red at the time and stopped, in retrospect I should have tried to merge over to the shoulder, but there was a still a clear lane to my right and traffic was light. I had my hazard lights on to signal my difficulty but unfortunately an inattentive driver behind continued to take-off at speed and collide into the stationary and stricken Alfa as I was trying to reset the error - Insult added to injury!
Any way the fault reset itself and after exchanging details I drive off with the intention of getting the car to the Alfa dealer to fix both the transmission error and new damage on the rear bumper. After stopping to put some fuel in the tank, both the check transmission and engine lights came on as I was trying to pull out of the service station. The car was then stuck in neutral and I elected to push it back out of the way, and whilst the engine was running it also decide to turn itself off!
At this point it was no longer safe to drive the car and I called for the Alfa recovery service. I will keep you informed once I hear more from the dealer as to the cause and remedy for the fault. In the meantime, would greatly appreciate any advice from anyone that has had similar issues and already resolved the problem with Alfa.
My 4C LE (Australian spec) has ~5,000km and recently started to develop some intermittent transmission fault codes.
Whilst driving in sometimes cool (22degC) sometime warm (35degC) conditions generally always in low load conditions (cruising around 80km/h) the car would throw a check transmission error on the display and advise that manual mode was not available. I would see the 'gear ring' symbol lit and the car would proceed in automatic mode (i generally drive in natural / manual mode) . This would last maybe 5-10 secs and the error would often disappear. No noticeable change in shift quality or any other noticeable fault with the car.
This had become progressively worse over the last 4-5 weeks, (the car has not be driven often as I work interstate during the week) to the point that on the last few occasions the car would be stuck in 3rd gear and only change into neutral once the car was stationary. Again, this would clear itself generally with the last occasion requiring to switch off the car and restart to clear the fault. On each occasion the car would be fine for the trip home and the fault would only appear once and only intermittently.
The problem has been such that I haven't trusted to take the car on any long trips, instead hoping to see a more conclusive failure close to home where a recovery service was going to be easy to arrange.
As it would happen, last Thursday there was finally a more serious fault. The car did the same thing as described above, on down change (manual, natural) from 4th to 3rd the check transmission fault appeared and the car was stuck in 3rd gear. I coasted to the first set of lights which were red at the time and stopped, in retrospect I should have tried to merge over to the shoulder, but there was a still a clear lane to my right and traffic was light. I had my hazard lights on to signal my difficulty but unfortunately an inattentive driver behind continued to take-off at speed and collide into the stationary and stricken Alfa as I was trying to reset the error - Insult added to injury!
Any way the fault reset itself and after exchanging details I drive off with the intention of getting the car to the Alfa dealer to fix both the transmission error and new damage on the rear bumper. After stopping to put some fuel in the tank, both the check transmission and engine lights came on as I was trying to pull out of the service station. The car was then stuck in neutral and I elected to push it back out of the way, and whilst the engine was running it also decide to turn itself off!
At this point it was no longer safe to drive the car and I called for the Alfa recovery service. I will keep you informed once I hear more from the dealer as to the cause and remedy for the fault. In the meantime, would greatly appreciate any advice from anyone that has had similar issues and already resolved the problem with Alfa.
1 - 20 of 127 Posts
Only the gift of insurance 
Very sorry to hear, Gilly.
Also, might be important, as (if memory serves) this is the first non-N. American spec car reported to to suffer this affliction.
I think we've had about 4 US cars with similar symptoms. It seems that transmission replacement (under warranty) was the solution at least once (only after multiple smaller bits were first exchanged, without success). Some are still in the shop.
The 3rd gear is a clue, I think. From reading the workings of the TCT gearbox from Alfa Workshops's site, the neutral thing is a protection. But the even an odd gears are on diffent shafts. A hydraulic activator pump engages or disengages either. That pump has been suspect in at least one such failure (see Racer Z's "Inconsistent Problems" thread), but the problem persisted after replacement. The link to jamiealfa's description of e TCT is in the "how it works" sticky on the technical and engine page.
Good luck, and we're all hoping for a quick resolution. Please let us know.
Also, might be important, as (if memory serves) this is the first non-N. American spec car reported to to suffer this affliction.
I think we've had about 4 US cars with similar symptoms. It seems that transmission replacement (under warranty) was the solution at least once (only after multiple smaller bits were first exchanged, without success). Some are still in the shop.
The 3rd gear is a clue, I think. From reading the workings of the TCT gearbox from Alfa Workshops's site, the neutral thing is a protection. But the even an odd gears are on diffent shafts. A hydraulic activator pump engages or disengages either. That pump has been suspect in at least one such failure (see Racer Z's "Inconsistent Problems" thread), but the problem persisted after replacement. The link to jamiealfa's description of e TCT is in the "how it works" sticky on the technical and engine page.
Good luck, and we're all hoping for a quick resolution. Please let us know.
we had a similar issue in italy, on one car... was a faulty cabling, replaced under warranty
Good to know - especially the relatively simple fix on that one!we had a similar issue in italy, on one car... was a faulty cabling, replaced under warranty
Thanks 4Canada - have read through the previous threads and Jamie's excellent write up on the TCT architecture. I must admit mine feel a little more electrical than an outright mechanical failure but the pump certainly could be a culprit as well.Very sorry to hear, Gilly.
Also, might be important, as (if memory serves) this is the first non-N. American spec car reported to to suffer this affliction.
I think we've had about 4 US cars with similar symptoms. It seems that transmission replacement (under warranty) was the solution at least once (only after multiple smaller bits were first exchanged, without success). Some are still in the shop.
The 3rd gear is a clue, I think. From reading the workings of the TCT gearbox from Alfa Workshops's site, the neutral thing is a protection. But the even an odd gears are on diffent shafts. A hydraulic activator pump engages or disengages either. That pump has been suspect in at least one such failure (see Racer Z's "Inconsistent Problems" thread), but the problem persisted after replacement. The link to jamiealfa's description of e TCT is in the "how it works" sticky on the technical and engine page.
Good luck, and we're all hoping for a quick resolution. Please let us know.
But that's what makes these forums so valuable to owners - this sort of shared information is a powerful ally when dealing with these issues.
Gilly, sorry to hear of your troubles and hope that your issues are quickly resolved.
It seems, based upon an unscientific observation, that owners that have transmission problems regularly use manual mode.
Not inditing anyone for acceptable behavior just wondering if use of that mode is somehow connected to the failure.
It seems, based upon an unscientific observation, that owners that have transmission problems regularly use manual mode.
Not inditing anyone for acceptable behavior just wondering if use of that mode is somehow connected to the failure.
Enziof and 4Canada, mine was one of the cars to have the transmission replaced. I got it back last week. Yes, I have normally driven the car in Manual. The failures occurred in Race and Dynamic/Manual. I think mine was a software issue, because it would not fail in Dynamic/Auto or Normal/Auto, no matter how hard I drove it.
Oh crap. Just what I didn't want to hear.
I've crashed my car and had transmission failure, just in the same day.
Currently, my car is in with transmission issues. The only good news is warranty will cover the transmission problem. Both you and me.
I've crashed my car and had transmission failure, just in the same day.
Currently, my car is in with transmission issues. The only good news is warranty will cover the transmission problem. Both you and me.
Ive just taken the centre console out of my car and noticed that the cables running to the shift selector panel were really really squashed. almost flat.. seriously , very concerning , i'm going to get my auto electrician to take a better look,
not sure if this could cause a fault or even be your problem but maybe worth looking at.
not sure if this could cause a fault or even be your problem but maybe worth looking at.
Thanks for the tip, certainly sounds like something worth raising with the service department.Ive just taken the centre console out of my car and noticed that the cables running to the shift selector panel were really really squashed. almost flat.. seriously , very concerning , i'm going to get my auto electrician to take a better look,
not sure if this could cause a fault or even be your problem but maybe worth looking at.
Got an update a couple of days ago, Alfa have provided a revised software version apparently and the car was tested with no faults so far. I'm a little dubious since the frequency and intensity of the faults seemed to get worse over time, where as I would have thought a pure software glitch to be purely random in nature.
Unfortunately there still waiting for the assessment on the rear bumper damage for the subsequent rear-ender so I haven't got the car back yet to assess for myself.
Will keep you updated and will try to find out what version the software changed from and to..
Having re-read your first post and your latest post, part of what you describe is similar to a problem that was wide in the NA market. I don't recall any of us being stuck though.
Clearly this is a problem your dealer and FCA will workout, not us. But it does make good conversation.
When I first got my LE last year, while stuck in stop-n-go traffic, the orange gear would come on and the transmission would go into natural mode. The computer seemed to think the clutches were overheating, which wasn't true. The car drove and shifted just fine. AR released a software update that corrected this.
All was good for me until about a month ago. With 15,000 miles on my car, the transmission went clunk into neutral and would not let me put it back in gear. They replaced the high pressure oil pump on the transmission which controls the clutches and gear shifts.
About a thousand miles later, same symptoms. Now they suspect the voltage regulator has failed. The high pressure oil pump works between 4.5 and 5.5 bar normally (65-80 psi). The pressure is controlled by the voltage regulator.
Waiting on the new regulator as we speak.
Unlike you, my car never got stuck in gear. When the computer realized there was a problem, it put the transmission into neutral.
Clearly this is a problem your dealer and FCA will workout, not us. But it does make good conversation.
When I first got my LE last year, while stuck in stop-n-go traffic, the orange gear would come on and the transmission would go into natural mode. The computer seemed to think the clutches were overheating, which wasn't true. The car drove and shifted just fine. AR released a software update that corrected this.
All was good for me until about a month ago. With 15,000 miles on my car, the transmission went clunk into neutral and would not let me put it back in gear. They replaced the high pressure oil pump on the transmission which controls the clutches and gear shifts.
About a thousand miles later, same symptoms. Now they suspect the voltage regulator has failed. The high pressure oil pump works between 4.5 and 5.5 bar normally (65-80 psi). The pressure is controlled by the voltage regulator.
Waiting on the new regulator as we speak.
Unlike you, my car never got stuck in gear. When the computer realized there was a problem, it put the transmission into neutral.
Racer Z, good information thanks - it provided a good history of events that are probably spread over several threads.Having re-read your first post and your latest post, part of what you describe is similar to a problem that was wide in the NA market. I don't recall any of us being stuck though.
Clearly this is a problem your dealer and FCA will workout, not us. But it does make good conversation.
When I first got my LE last year, while stuck in stop-n-go traffic, the orange gear would come on and the transmission would go into natural mode. The computer seemed to think the clutches were overheating, which wasn't true. The car drove and shifted just fine. AR released a software update that corrected this.
All was good for me until about a month ago. With 15,000 miles on my car, the transmission went clunk into neutral and would not let me put it back in gear. They replaced the high pressure oil pump on the transmission which controls the clutches and gear shifts.
About a thousand miles later, same symptoms. Now they suspect the voltage regulator has failed. The high pressure oil pump works between 4.5 and 5.5 bar normally (65-80 psi). The pressure is controlled by the voltage regulator.
Waiting on the new regulator as we speak.
Unlike you, my car never got stuck in gear. When the computer realized there was a problem, it put the transmission into neutral.
Initially my failure would only result in the transmission going into Auto mode gears would still change as normally in Auto mode.
On the last couple of occasions, the box seem to hold onto 3rd rather than shift up or down and after coming to rest the box would automatic shift into neutral and stay there until I turn the car off and restarted it or it clear itself.
Certainly hope it is only software - might be booking in another track day soon to test it proper!
Well finally got the work report from my dealer and the end result is quite disappointing. After being told that the car had a software update, I found it this morning that the only thing they have done is to reset the TCM and ECU, cleared the only code that showed up and taken it for a short test drive.Thanks for the tip, certainly sounds like something worth raising with the service department.
Got an update a couple of days ago, Alfa have provided a revised software version apparently and the car was tested with no faults so far. I'm a little dubious since the frequency and intensity of the faults seemed to get worse over time, where as I would have thought a pure software glitch to be purely random in nature.
Unfortunately there still waiting for the assessment on the rear bumper damage for the subsequent rear-ender so I haven't got the car back yet to assess for myself.
Will keep you updated and will try to find out what version the software changed from and to..
I ofcourse told them earlier of the intermittent nature of the fault and how it appeared to be getting worse leading up the car being stuck in neutral after coming to rest in the middle of traffic.
The service manager explained to me that he hadn't even approach the factory since the code didn't reappear and there was no campaign on file.
Interestingly the only fault code that was present was PZ914 'Power request from driver'? I can't see any reference to this code and was hoping some of the more experienced here might know what this is?
I can't believe that the dealer would be so dismissive of a fault that has ultimately resulted in over $14k worth of damage and not even considered calling Alfa to see if there was a more detailed diagnostic process available to seek out the true fault. After I suggested he at least contact Alfa to find out if there was a more comprehensive diagnostic process, he told me I would be better off contacting the distributor Fiat Chrysler Australia directly otherwise they would not take the request from him seriously - unbelievable!
Also interesting was the battery voltage. The car had been with them for only a week but the voltage had dropped down to 10.5 volts - I now suspect that there must be a short or bad earth in the electronics somewhere - which could explain the intermittent nature of the fault and the lack of expected fault codes....
Be interested to hear the thoughts of the experts on this forum?
That blows!
How were you monitoring the voltage?
Any chance that the battery has always been marginal?
Just a thought, but modern electronics can be finicky.
But I'm no mechanic. Sadly, yours aren't much help either.
How were you monitoring the voltage?
Any chance that the battery has always been marginal?
Just a thought, but modern electronics can be finicky.
But I'm no mechanic. Sadly, yours aren't much help either.
Gilly, it unfortunate that you have to go through this experience, adding insult to injury. I can tell you that you're not alone in this type of experience.
I've had to call FCA (Fiat Chrysler of America) almost every time my 4C has had a problem. Not because the dealer doesn't care, they do, but because when they get stuck and need help, help does not arrive.
The service repair manual, the one I can't see or purchase, is hard to use and may not have answers. OBDII codes that start with P0xxx are generic public codes, all others such as P1xxx or PZxxx are private manufacturer codes and don't have to be shared publicly. Alfa is so scared, they won't even tell their dealer mechanics what these codes mean. The dealer is stuck waiting for AR to respond, as you're experiencing. When the dealer thinks they've found the problem, they can't do much without approval from AR.
My experience, as frustrating as it has been, is that I had to call FCA weekly in order to keep them motivated. Now, a new problem will arise. Your actual problem started months ago, probably months before the car got smashed. But, when you call FCA (Fiat Chrysler of Australia) they will view this as a new case starting today. The only good news is that both you and your dealer can badger them from both sides at the same time.
Work with your dealer on this. Tell them what you're doing and why. Take the, yuk, diplomatic path. They've already hinted that this is what they want you to do.
I've had to call FCA (Fiat Chrysler of America) almost every time my 4C has had a problem. Not because the dealer doesn't care, they do, but because when they get stuck and need help, help does not arrive.
The service repair manual, the one I can't see or purchase, is hard to use and may not have answers. OBDII codes that start with P0xxx are generic public codes, all others such as P1xxx or PZxxx are private manufacturer codes and don't have to be shared publicly. Alfa is so scared, they won't even tell their dealer mechanics what these codes mean. The dealer is stuck waiting for AR to respond, as you're experiencing. When the dealer thinks they've found the problem, they can't do much without approval from AR.
My experience, as frustrating as it has been, is that I had to call FCA weekly in order to keep them motivated. Now, a new problem will arise. Your actual problem started months ago, probably months before the car got smashed. But, when you call FCA (Fiat Chrysler of Australia) they will view this as a new case starting today. The only good news is that both you and your dealer can badger them from both sides at the same time.
Work with your dealer on this. Tell them what you're doing and why. Take the, yuk, diplomatic path. They've already hinted that this is what they want you to do.
I suspect that, if you were in America (home of the Free, land of the Litigious), you'd already have had your lawyer in touch with Fiat Chrysler on this. After all, it was their defective vehicle that put you into an accident that has affected your health and you can no longer enjoy sex properly again because of it. OK, so I made that last part up. Thankfully, you are OK. Now we need your car to be, as well....
Work with your dealer on this. Tell them what you're doing and why. Take the, yuk, diplomatic path. They've already hinted that this is what they want you to do.
Racer is right - you need to work as a team with your dealership, to tag-team FCA into responding. I wouldn't entirely rule out the lawyer card for future use, if you don't get anywhere with the manufacturer. I don't know what kind of consumer protection laws you have, but there are certainly liability and negligence torts to rely on. But for now, you have the experience of this forum to back your own observations up with. There is some sort of issue, and it has to be fixed.
Can you go out on a test-drive with the mechanic? Since your fault appeared in manual mode, as most of the failures over here have, you may need to be abundantly clear that the test drive has to be in M. The car seems to behave properly in Automatic, once the code has been cleared.
Just a thought.
Thanks RacerZ and 4Canda - sage advice from both of you and I think your right that I need take the diplomatic path.
I checked battery voltage earlier and cleaned up the terminals just in case- the low voltage has me intrigued. I think I will arrange a auto electrician friend and see if there is some sort of logging device I can put on the car to monitor the voltage and any unusual spikes or dips.
Also, I installed a reverse camera not too long ago and must admit the problems only car after the installation - I will have this removed and checked to.
Will certainly let the forum know if I find anything.
I checked battery voltage earlier and cleaned up the terminals just in case- the low voltage has me intrigued. I think I will arrange a auto electrician friend and see if there is some sort of logging device I can put on the car to monitor the voltage and any unusual spikes or dips.
Also, I installed a reverse camera not too long ago and must admit the problems only car after the installation - I will have this removed and checked to.
Will certainly let the forum know if I find anything.
1 - 20 of 127 Posts
- This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Alfa Romeo 4C Forums
Alfa Romeo 4C Forum - a community for two-seater fans to chat about launch control, turbo upgrades, reliability and more!
Full Forum Listing
Recommended Communities
