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Gentleman.... I think we need to accept a few things about the 4C... It is a flawed car. When the original car came out several of the auto journalist slammed it, such as Matt Farah and Jason Cammisa. A lot of the auto journalist have to sell an image/car, review the car based on what the "general consumer" will like in a car (storage, cup holders, infotainment system, people carrying ability, etc), and their own "image" of what a car should be (partial enthusiast) so it should be taken with a grain of salt. However, they have driven FAR more cars than most of us do....

I think most people would agree that the 4C is a very beautiful car and showed great promise for the enthusiast (Carbon fiber tub, etc). However, it wasn't really the best driving car. It follows all the contours of the road and is a weird mix of "old school" and "new School". No power steering, but no Manual?.... As i said "weird" for the enthusiast.... Plus, it isn't the easiest to drive at the limit and the gearing is a tad short for track use (Works on the street, but the gearing can fall into a "no mans land" on some tracks). What Matt & Jason noted is this this "let down" from a beautiful exterior but "drove like crap and interior is sparse/plastic". Plus, when you are comparing it to a Porsche, the Porsche has ALL of the modern amenities, outstanding DCT, excellent driving characteristics at the limit, and is what most consumers would pick..... Even if it has a boring exterior and they all look alike.... The Alfa is not for "everybody", but that is why most of us love it.
I would not use the adjective "flawed". I would use "eccentric". Its different than the norm, its very unique, it is very colourful, and its not for everyone, but to those that dig it, its a real interesting and entertaining treat ;) You mention Porsche as a "benchmark" vehicle but I traded one in on my spider and am very happy to have traded up!!
 

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I have my son in law a spirited ride yesterday. About 5 miles into it he said ‘okay, that’s enough’. I’m not sure what it is about the car, but being a passenger is pretty scary. I let a friend drive my car and it is the only time I have been scared as a passenger in the last 20 years. That was on the old AR tires, but it really felt like we were going to crash.
 

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Gentleman.... I think we need to accept a few things about the 4C... It is a flawed car. When the original car came out several of the auto journalist slammed it, such as Matt Farah and Jason Cammisa. A lot of the auto journalist have to sell an image/car, review the car based on what the "general consumer" will like in a car (storage, cup holders, infotainment system, people carrying ability, etc), and their own "image" of what a car should be (partial enthusiast) so it should be taken with a grain of salt. However, they have driven FAR more cars than most of us do....

I think most people would agree that the 4C is a very beautiful car and showed great promise for the enthusiast (Carbon fiber tub, etc). However, it wasn't really the best driving car. It follows all the contours of the road and is a weird mix of "old school" and "new School". No power steering, but no Manual?.... As i said "weird" for the enthusiast.... Plus, it isn't the easiest to drive at the limit and the gearing is a tad short for track use (Works on the street, but the gearing can fall into a "no mans land" on some tracks). What Matt & Jason noted is this this "let down" from a beautiful exterior but "drove like crap and interior is sparse/plastic". Plus, when you are comparing it to a Porsche, the Porsche has ALL of the modern amenities, outstanding DCT, excellent driving characteristics at the limit, and is what most consumers would pick..... Even if it has a boring exterior and they all look alike.... The Alfa is not for "everybody", but that is why most of us love it.
Exactly.
I don't get why it's surprising you guys that people who drive a lot of near perfect cars (Porsche, new Ferraris, McLarens etc) see 4C's flaws?
It has plenty. Is this new to you?
For weekend easy cruising most of them don't really matter.
For people who drive them hard and track - fortunately few not too expansive mods improve the situation a lot and make the 4c almost flawless.
Still not Porsche.
But its lightness and immediacy are a very rare find today.

I do like Mat's shows and i became trusting his opinion, so i was sorry to hear what they said about 4c and wished that somebody with sorted 4c would let him him know how it feels and remind him how special lightness feels....
 

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Yeah, I don't understand the obsession that reviewers have to comment on the stereo in the Alfa. I remember picking up a brand new Testarossa at Shelton Ferrari back in 1986, and it had a terrible Pioneer unit and two crappy speakers. Nobody seemed to care back then. I'm glad the stereo in the Alfa is just for music, but I will change it out like I do in every car for better sound. It may be that I am getting older, but I don't find the exhaust terribly loud at all in the car.
The "obsession" is fair, as why pioneer/alpine/etc STILL make this obsolete garbage is for a "third world" market where the dins are generally stolen and the economy doesn't allow for anything up to date... So how does a manufacturer have the stone face to spec a $18.34 (2014 bulk price) DIN to an effectively $70k+ car?
You are talking about 1987, where the SAME din tech minus Bluetooth and few cheapening advancements was fitted because they offered weight, size/space, cost, and complexity savings to Ferrari/etc that sold a motor and artful panels with a steel chassis and leather interior thrown in for free. Today, there is simply no excuse why FCA didnt just copy the successful Porsche and A, "toss in" the din and A/C from an Abarth or QV model plus a delete option, B, offer the manual the MiTo already has and blanket it with the same warranty since most will have bought the DCT anyways but the manual will have "bought" the media and people like me who now have to engineer one from Porsche anyways, and C, spec Michelin for testers and standard cars. Well, they should've learned, having sold less than 14k 4c worldwide in an industry-known fluke despite selling the world's first "mass market" midengine, carbon tubbed sports car that should've sold better than the elise, alpine, miata, mr2, cayman, boxster, z4...
But no. Gordon Murray bought the Alpine, basically a bloated elise built by Germans.
We all know he wished it was the Alfa, as we all did, credit where credit is due.
 

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Exactly.
I don't get why it's surprising you guys that people who drive a lot of near perfect cars (Porsche, new Ferraris, McLarens etc) see 4C's flaws?
It has plenty. Is this new to you?
For weekend easy cruising most of them don't really matter.
Exactly this, most people put the 4C as a split between a lotus Elise/Exige and a Cayman, and I would have to agree. It is not as hardcore track/enthusiast oriented as a lotus and not as refined as a Porsche, which makes it sort of in the middle of an awkward spot.

A cayman is terrific because you can drive it comfortably all week long then take it to the track on the weekend and it will perform flawlessly. But the 4C is SPECIAL, it's an occasion every time you take it out of the garage. I love it because I accept the flaws that this car comes with and understand what makes it so unique. Unfortunately (fortunately?) most people don't, and that's why sales are abysmal, you'd have to want specifically a 4C to get a 4C.
 

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The "obsession" is fair, as why pioneer/alpine/etc STILL make this obsolete garbage is for a "third world" market where the dins are generally stolen and the economy doesn't allow for anything up to date... So how does a manufacturer have the stone face to spec a $18.34 (2014 bulk price) DIN to an effectively $70k+ car?
You are talking about 1987, where the SAME din tech minus Bluetooth and few cheapening advancements was fitted because they offered weight, size/space, cost, and complexity savings to Ferrari/etc that sold a motor and artful panels with a steel chassis and leather interior thrown in for free. Today, there is simply no excuse why FCA didnt just copy the successful Porsche and A, "toss in" the din and A/C from an Abarth or QV model plus a delete option, B, offer the manual the MiTo already has and blanket it with the same warranty since most will have bought the DCT anyways but the manual will have "bought" the media and people like me who now have to engineer one from Porsche anyways, and C, spec Michelin for testers and standard cars. Well, they should've learned, having sold less than 14k 4c worldwide in an industry-known fluke despite selling the world's first "mass market" midengine, carbon tubbed sports car that should've sold better than the elise, alpine, miata, mr2, cayman, boxster, z4...
But no. Gordon Murray bought the Alpine, basically a bloated elise built by Germans.
We all know he wished it was the Alfa, as we all did, credit where credit is due.
I think you mean Giulietta, not MiTo. The Giulietta QV had a manual with the 1750TBi, the largest engine in the MiTo was a 1.4L. Short gearing would make a manual version a chore as our 4C is so much quicker than the Giulietta with the same motor. I have one of each.
 

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Just a reminder: There is no great car. There is no perfect car. It doesn't work like that. It causes a lot of confusion. We've hinted at why a lot of dumbasses get a long of things wrong.

All things need to satisfy some set of requirements, and the requirements are weighted, by you, of you're own accord.

You either know what they are intuitively, or you write them down. Whatever. Most people who got 4C's because it was important to have a beautiful exotic looking Italian car no longer own one. They placed the wrong weight on something and never considered all the other requirements. Like hooking up with a hot dipshit. It's great, but when they take 1.5 hours to scramble eggs for you in the morning, and the kitchen looks like a twister hit it, you quickly re-evaluate your criteria.

Someone on here, name forgotten, ditched the 4C for some AMG monster that probably eats children when it's not rocketing down the autobahn at ludicrous speeds. He did right. He realized the 4C is not an autobahn bullet train.

I mean, what kind of sports car purchase are you making if you don't match it to the roads and driving you wanna do? What kind of shit is that?! I have so many miles of tight, twisty, winding roads to access. A long wheelbase GT car makes zero sense. A 500 HP 911 makes no sense, too.

For me, my requirements are innate. The cars that I have loved have been light, tossable and sacrificed a Top Speed number for shorter gearing. When I boated, I stayed with 2-stroke outboards right up to Mercury 300+ hp 2-strokes. You wanna a feel an engine light up NOW? Damn, that's fun. Light... light prop... BAM. 2-strokers take no prisoners. Fuck fuel economy and valvetrains!

So much tossing around: Celica GTS. Late 80s Mustang GT. Jetta GLI. Golf GTi. Audi A3. Older BMW 3-series (not the modern snoozers). 1988 Shelby Z. Simple, modest, light cars. None of these YouTube tools ever talk about how deep you can dive into a corner given how short the wheelbase is and how predictable the brakes are.

They all talk about the same DUMB SHIT. In no cars do they ever notice the gearing; the turn in from a short wheelbase, the ability to absolutely hit a corner like a dive bomber, or they completely discount the tires on a car or the temperature outside. They burn up transmissions in cars they don't own by using dozens of automated launches or 5000 rpm clutch dumps so losers can flip to the back of some story or magazine and see something pulled a 0-100kph time of 4.3. "Oh boy, that falls short of whateverfuckingcarwegetadsfor by 2 tenths!"

The mags and rags will suck off a 4C if the ad money and contract is looking good with FCA. They'll spin the story as needed. FCA goes belly up and VW Group is holding the magazine up with it's ad revenue? They'll suck off a base Golf.

I need to get out of quarantine.
 

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A bit sexist about the woman in the kitchen bit but I know what you mean. I’ve have a wife who booted me out of the kitchen for the same reasons you mentioned. She likes to cook. I’ll do the dishes. It works. :) Carry on....
 

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1) Just a reminder: There is no great car. There is no perfect car. It doesn't work like that. It causes a lot of confusion. We've hinted at why a lot of dumbasses get a long of things wrong.
2) All things need to satisfy some set of requirements, and the requirements are weighted, by you, of you're own accord.
3) I mean, what kind of sports car purchase are you making if you don't match it to the roads and driving you wanna do?
4) The cars that I have loved has been light, tossable and sacrificed a Top Speed number for shorter gearing.
5) I need to get out of quarantine.
1) If there ever was a "perfect" car/wife/gf/man/husband/dish/drink etc. how we would comparatively know? Even so ...and say we had the PERFECT/BEST, would that be the END ALL? Would you not at times, crave a mini over a La Ferrari, listen to Bose over Focal, date a Redhead over a Blonde...and the list goes on (PLEASE the former is not better or worse than the latter i.e. Mini <=> La Ferrari etc.)
2) yup this is answered in #1 above (scuza Phil, but I have way too much time on my hands at the moment...it is 'your' hahaa - I am certain you will return the editing favoUr at some point in time :ROFLMAO:
3) definitely agree and I often wonder why the Frk the 360, which will get you arrested between 2nd-3rd here, is still in the garage -oh wait it is that damn gate and the fact that it is sculpted by the same designer of the 4C....and one day, God willing, it will be my daily driver on the PCH and Desert Runs ✅
4) If it is not tussling with you and making you SWEAT....then she ain't worth it :p
5) hopefully soon my Friend/s....
 

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I won't watch it, but then again, Doug Demuro, Matt Farah, and just about all of them make me cringe. First, I find them them and their like to be borderline morons, and they are in the business of clicks and entertainment.

I'm in this camp: I am happy if they all hate it.

I've had my month's quota for cringe, so YouTube's clown parade, which includes the Doug Demuro and Matt Farah floats, won't be attended by me.

I last watched Farah drive the C8. I threw up in my mouth a little. Not making that mistake again.
Does it matter that Matt Farah, Leon Trotsky, Doug Demuro or Kim Joug un do not like the car? o_O You may find it interesting, as to what they have to say, but like any journalist or U-Tuber. They have their own brand of journalism to sell. And to sell it they may, embellish, denigrate or exaggerate to promote their writings. Don't take them too seriously. They are just looking for an audience.
Forget them, it's what you like that is important. In the real world, most seem to give me the thumbs up when I drive by, or ask to take pictures of the car, and they are very polite about it when they ask. All is well in ALFA land ! 😁
 

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I think you mean Giulietta, not MiTo. The Giulietta QV had a manual with the 1750TBi, the largest engine in the MiTo was a 1.4L. Short gearing would make a manual version a chore as our 4C is so much quicker than the Giulietta with the same motor. I have one of each.
Huh, I've got a magazine somewhere with some shoddy journalism then... Still, with the right gearing trans and diff, the torque difference isn't too big to not be easily "mathed out" to hit a nice sweet balance.
I'm talking to several engineering firms (mostly off road builders but theres the charity hopeful race ones and Strange out west in the US) and they all seem to jump at the idea for a cost effective swap lies in a custom transaxle adapter (mostly plates to match the sizes and the seal from one bolt pattern to the target trans, which is a simple thing to machine/CNC/mold'n'cast given a 3d scan and few measurements done three times over), and use the G50/G90 from Porsche or the Exige trans from any cup or "supercharged" version (both have pros/cons depending on where I decide to go with the drivetrain). One (PM me for name, pls) has already quoted me below $2k for the adapter plate, gaskets, and bolts/misc with torque specs ready to install myself if i source the Lotus transmission. The shifter cables pass easily through the holes allocated (I wonder if Alfa had designed the tub for a manual and kept the holes?) For the brake cable and electrical, I have the 3D printer to print the new custom grommet.
The ECU can be programmed easily to "translate" (I've been told) the shift action, theres no real ECU security suite, and ignore the extra sensors that the DCT needed...
But, the Pedalset is where the hard choices begin, as there is plenty space and aftermarket race options (some are MUCH lighter and BEAUTIFUL!), But you lose the deadpedal/footrest/etc space, so either i get creative with a high folding peg like on a motorcycle or i simply rest the clutch foot on the floor and avoid the eventual mistake of going for a shift and stab my foot on an unfolded mini peg.

Or: swap the whole drivetrain once my OEM becomes money pit with some amazing future tech like a crashed Gemera 3-cyl, Busso v6, Porsche 4.0 N/A flattie, or whatever the future brings.
It's relative as the 4c was never a fully rational pick anyways!
 

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Huh, I've got a magazine somewhere with some shoddy journalism then...
...unless it was a Frankenstein MiTo. It could have been, but not a production version.
To my knowledge the most powerful prodi MiTo was a QV with the 1.4L 170hp Multiair engine.
 

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...unless it was a Frankenstein MiTo. It could have been, but not a production version.
To my knowledge the most powerful prodi MiTo was a QV with the 1.4L 170hp Multiair engine.
Nope, i specifically remember it saying production MiTo... I've been looking for it because it's been bothering me honestly, it had MiTo pictures everywhere too
 

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Nope, i specifically remember it saying production MiTo... I've been looking for it because it's been bothering me honestly, it had MiTo pictures everywhere too
I hope you find it. It’ll only add to my knowledge of Alfa models if you do.
 
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