Alfa Romeo 4C Forums banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,700 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Word of caution to anyone thinking about buying the hi-flow cat that Madness sells.

I ordered the hi-flow cat from them on 3/5 and didn’t receive it until 4/25, over 7 weeks. It wasn’t a big deal, I knew it would take some time since they were made to order and built in Italy apparently. But that’s the first bit of caution to anyone planning to order one, be prepared to wait a while.

But there’s plenty more issues beyond lead time…

I went to install it yesterday afternoon. After dealing with the frustrations of getting the stock cat out, which is way harder than it has any right to be, I finally got it out after a few hours time. I first test fitted the OEM turbo clamp that needs to be reused on the new hi-flow cat and it doesn’t fit. The gap between the flange and the main cat/welds is too small that it won’t fit in there. I could probably bend it a bit to make fit, but before I potentially ruined a good clamp, I decided to test fit the new cat itself in place, and encountered the next problem…

It doesn’t fit. As shown in the pictures below, with the lower mount and exhaust flange in place, it doesn’t mate up to the turbo; it’s a few mm off. Same problem if you attach it to the turbo first, it then doesn’t fit in place on the lower bracket.

I’ve reached out to Madness last night about the issue and am waiting to hear back. At this point I don’t have the luxury of time to wait for a replacement to be built and then that one potentially not fit as well, so I’ve asked for a refund. I’ve spent thousands of dollars over the years with Madness so I’m hopeful they do what’s right here. I’ve already had my ECU retuned for a hi-flow cat and am going to see if I can get the Capristo one in a reasonable time instead.

Just wanted to let you guys know my experience. I believe others have successfully installed the Madness hi-flow cat in the past, but mine just didn’t work.

IMG_5859.jpg

IMG_5858.jpg

IMG_5860.jpg

IMG_5861.jpg

IMG_5863.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
649 Posts
Word of caution to anyone thinking about buying the hi-flow cat that Madness sells.

I ordered the hi-flow cat from them on 3/5 and didn’t receive it until 4/25, over 7 weeks. It wasn’t a big deal, I knew it would take some time since they were made to order and built in Italy apparently. But that’s the first bit of caution to anyone planning to order one, be prepared to wait a while.

But there’s plenty more issues beyond lead time…

I went to install it yesterday afternoon. After dealing with the frustrations of getting the stock cat out, which is way harder than it has any right to be, I finally got it out after a few hours time. I first test fitted the OEM turbo clamp that needs to be reused on the new hi-flow cat and it doesn’t fit. The gap between the flange and the main cat/welds is too small that it won’t fit in there. I could probably bend it a bit to make fit, but before I potentially ruined a good clamp, I decided to test fit the new cat itself in place, and encountered the next problem…

It doesn’t fit. As shown in the pictures below, with the lower mount and exhaust flange in place, it doesn’t mate up to the turbo; it’s a few mm off. Same problem if you attach it to the turbo first, it then doesn’t fit in place on the lower bracket.

I’ve reached out to Madness last night about the issue and am waiting to hear back. At this point I don’t have the luxury of time to wait for a replacement to be built and then that one potentially not fit as well, so I’ve asked for a refund. I’ve spent thousands of dollars over the years with Madness so I’m hopeful they do what’s right here. I’ve already had my ECU retuned for a hi-flow cat and am going to see if I can get the Capristo one in a reasonable time instead.

Just wanted to let you guys know my experience. I believe others have successfully installed the Madness hi-flow cat in the past, but mine just didn’t work.

View attachment 117120
View attachment 117121
View attachment 117122
View attachment 117123
View attachment 117124


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Those are from Inoxcar it seems....
117125
 

·
Super Moderator
2015 4C Launch Edition
Joined
·
5,041 Posts
Hmmm...please keep us informed as to how this was resolved. I thought that some others had that CAT on their 4Cs so perhaps a change or wrong item.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,535 Posts
Like FLORO’s KW woes, something changed in the jig to make these (or they used the wrong jig). Or one of the elbow pieces they inserted was the wrong one (too short by a couple of mm). The good and bad of hand-made products.

I had my GMS high flow cat heat-wrapped, and had to cut away a bit of the wrapping at this spot as well, in order to make the clamp fit. There isn’t much room at the best of times here, but this appears to be a manufacturing mistake.

Sorry for your pains.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,700 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Like FLORO’s KW woes, something changed in the jig to make these (or they used the wrong jig). Or one of the elbow pieces they inserted was the wrong one (too short by a couple of mm). The good and bad of hand-made products.

I had my GMS high flow cat heat-wrapped, and had to cut away a bit of the wrapping at this spot as well, in order to make the clamp fit. There isn’t much room at the best of times here, but this appears to be a manufacturing mistake.

Sorry for your pains.
Have you read that KW topic recently? Because I’m also in the middle of dealing with the same issue FLORO had with the KW coilovers. My rears didn’t fit either and then KW only sent me ONE corrected replacement.

Other than the heat wrap, how was fitment on the GMS cat? I may look into that one rather than Capristo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,535 Posts
Have you read that KW topic recently? Because I’m also in the middle of dealing with the same issue FLORO had with the KW coilovers. My rears didn’t fit either and then KW only sent me ONE corrected replacement.

Other than the heat wrap, how was fitment on the GMS cat? I may look into that one rather than Capristo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah, sorry, I forgot it was you who also had the KW issue. You’re going through a bad patch. Fortunately, first world problems, but no fun just the same.

The GMS solution is wonderful. My issue was removing the stock cat, which you’ve already cracked. The rest is good.

His muffler does not allow for a stock rear sway bar, though. Rudi is in the midst of correcting that design. If you went KW, you might delete that anyhow.

The only other criticism that I have of an otherwise fantastic system is the supports. It basically hangs off the turbo and has a fairly weak rubber hanger above the tail end of he muffler. So far, no issues, but I foresee that rubber getting dried out and brittle in the future.

System works really well at evacuating heat. I did find that there is some lost low end torque (others have said normal, but I don’t really understand the physics behind that). Turbo spools faster, and it is louder. Did throw O2 sensor lights for me (had EC tune those out), but others have not had this. For the track, OK. No, better than OK - I really like it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,700 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yeah, sorry, I forgot it was you who also had the KW issue. You’re going through a bad patch. Fortunately, first world problems, but no fun just the same.

The GMS solution is wonderful. My issue was removing the stock cat, which you’ve already cracked. The rest is good.

His muffler does not allow for a stock rear sway bar, though. Rudi is in the midst of correcting that design. If you went KW, you might delete that anyhow.

The only other criticism that I have of an otherwise fantastic system is the supports. It basically hangs off the turbo and has a fairly weak rubber hanger above the tail end of he muffler. So far, no issues, but I foresee that rubber getting dried out and brittle in the future.

System works really well at evacuating heat. I did find that there is some lost low end torque (others have said normal, but I don’t really understand the physics behind that). Turbo spools faster, and it is louder. Did throw O2 sensor lights for me (had EC tune those out), but others have not had this. For the track, OK. No, better than OK - I really like it.
Thanks for the info. I’ll look into it but I’m probably still leaning towards the Capristo so I’m only having to swap on the one part on not multiple modular pieces. I also had EC retune my ECU for the new cat and 93 octane. So when I do eventually get it in, I shouldn’t have any codes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
265 Posts
Yeah, sorry, I forgot it was you who also had the KW issue. You’re going through a bad patch. Fortunately, first world problems, but no fun just the same.

The GMS solution is wonderful. My issue was removing the stock cat, which you’ve already cracked. The rest is good.

His muffler does not allow for a stock rear sway bar, though. Rudi is in the midst of correcting that design. If you went KW, you might delete that anyhow.

The only other criticism that I have of an otherwise fantastic system is the supports. It basically hangs off the turbo and has a fairly weak rubber hanger above the tail end of he muffler. So far, no issues, but I foresee that rubber getting dried out and brittle in the future.

System works really well at evacuating heat. I did find that there is some lost low end torque (others have said normal, but I don’t really understand the physics behind that). Turbo spools faster, and it is louder. Did throw O2 sensor lights for me (had EC tune those out), but others have not had this. For the track, OK. No, better than OK - I really like it.
Here’s an easy to understand opinion on the physics. I say opinion as I am no expert on car engines and just read and assess with a little engineering background. Basically the idea is during low rpm the “scavenging” effect of one exhaust pulse creating a vacuum to accelerate the next has a larger effect than back pressure. As rpm increases back pressure becomes dominant. Of course if you read the entire post you will see they make a bit of hedge for turbo engines in the very last line, but I still think it’s a contributing factor given what 4C owners have experienced. [shrug emoji here lol]

Exhaust: The straight scoop on backpressure
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
299 Posts
Shame to hear, such a pain to wait so long, get excited about a product, waste time installing just to have your heart broken.

Sorry to hear and thanks for the warning about this product
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,700 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I do want to stress that others have in fact successfully installed these on their car in the past. So it really might be a case-by-case basis. But they’re hand built so there is some margin for error and unfortunately mine just won’t work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
What would be the consequence of running a straight through downpipe to a high flow cat further downstream? just before the rear system?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,535 Posts
What would be the consequence of running a straight through downpipe to a high flow cat further downstream? just before the rear system?
Mainly having to develop that yourself as opposed to off-the-shelf options that "SHOULD" fit.

In other words, in this case not much. But like your KW experience, this is just a manufacturing foible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,700 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I spoke with Madness today. They’re reaching out to the manufacturer to first discuss what might have caused the issue. They said give it 24 hours and we’ll go from there. They were very kind in listening to the issue and helping to get it resolved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
9,037 Posts
I spoke with Madness today. They’re reaching out to the manufacturer to first discuss what might have caused the issue. They said give it 24 hours and we’ll go from there. They were very kind in listening to the issue and helping to get it resolved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That’s the kind of business you don’t mind having done business with when something goes wrong. They look like they’re doing their best to rectify things immediately. Please keep us informed of the progress. (y)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
649 Posts
  • Like
Reactions: FLORO

·
Super Moderator
2015 4C Launch Edition
Joined
·
5,041 Posts
What would be the consequence of running a straight through downpipe to a high flow cat further downstream? just before the rear system?
CallMeAl investigated this as I recall. The idea of having the CAT closer to the engine is to get it hot quickly and get best smog performance. Further away won't be as "clean" smog wise on the early cold start cycle of the engine but should work fine. That may be a good solution or at least make for an easier installation. You do have to be careful though as all those sensors are pretty much working together so if something wasn't "normal" it could start causing CELs.
In areas where you have to get smog checks every other year or two, if someone noticed a CAT in a different location that might set a red flag. In some states in the US (California) if you flunk a smog check by modifying that system it can result in very expensive fines and or preventing you from getting the car reregistered or even ability to sell it in the future. Not trying to frighten anyone or get a flame war going....but be careful what you do with your car. California has really stepped up reinforcement of smog laws....you can see lots of Youtube and industry blog posts about people and car specialty shops that got caught. This is getting rough on shops that sell performance gear designed to replace or change smog parts or tuning...even with printing that says "For off road use only." will not fend off the EPA. The industry is trying to fight that but it will be an uphill battle. People that race modified production cars are also very worried that this could be a big issue also. Evidently even though those cars are race only on track, it is still modifying the system of a production car which is seen as illegal. I know it sounds alarmist but the performance car industry thinks enough is at stake to have a bunch of lawyers fighting it as a class action.
Cars with the CAT removed smell bad and easy to find (smell) and cops are going after stinky cars and writing citations for violations of the EPA rules in California. I don't now about other states but perhaps others have some inside knowledge about their own states.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
They say there that to run that exhaust you need their ecu map. That will obviously address those CELs. Seems decent tibby, it even makes 6 bhp. I will need a few ECU tweaks then, when I get my custom Ti system completed.
This is a good plan b though Derwood.
 

·
4C-Forums.com Vendor
Joined
·
791 Posts
I spoke with Madness today. They’re reaching out to the manufacturer to first discuss what might have caused the issue. They said give it 24 hours and we’ll go from there. They were very kind in listening to the issue and helping to get it resolved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hello DerwoodEE,

It looks like Art has been working with you and the manufacturer to get this resolved.

I'll reach out to him and see if we have any additional update for you.

Please feel free to keep me posted, or if you need to send me a PM I can ping Art.

Looking forward to getting this resolved for you.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top