[4Canada]

Forgot to mention: only a tiny part of the defective part, "a sensor" was faulty. Thanks to some 'careful' engineering Alfa is able to sell something that really makes a difference. For their business that is.��

Thanks for clarifying that for us!

@ The Real Cvh;: did you find out what triggered your transmission problem? Could hardly be much rain or water in Dubai, or am I wrong? ?

I don't think he's on the board anymore. He sold his car a year or more ago.
His car was not only in a desert, but garaged when not in use - so not overly likely that this originated from water ingress.

 

[4Canada]

First, after nearly 1500 miles of driving since repaired, thecar has run flawlessly.

Great news!

The tentative diagnosis is that the tranny housing was bentat the point where the valve bolts up to the tranny housing, causinginconsistent or inadequate pressure readings. This diagnosis is not officialyet, so please don’t assume that is your issue. In fact, defaulting intoneutral is the way the car protects itself from a variety of conditions, manyof which have nothing to do with the tranny and part of the approach to isolatethe issue on my car was to eliminate these other possibilities.

Good information, and wise caution to anyone else not to jump to this conclusion

Just a shout out for the excellent dealer support, from thetechnical side right up to top management. It was their direct interest and involvementthat got the machine in Detroit fully engaged, and which also led to Italy’sinvolvement as well. Throughout the entire episode, the tech personally calledme almost daily to give me updates on what was happening, who he was talkingwith, and where we were, etc.
I strongly suspect that the tech is more knowledgeable aboutthis issue than anyone out there, and has agreed to talk to other techs dealingwith this problem. So, if you would like your tech to talk to him, email me andI will I will send you his contact data.

I strongly suspect you are right, and thank you for this, from us all!

(Merry Christmas back, too - and happy new year of faultless driving, as well!)

 

[4Canada]

39 responses.
6 reported problems.
1.5% failure rate.

That seems like a high percentage, but it's a very low response. Can we assume that everyone (who is a forum member) with an issue has responded? Can we assume that the several thousand who didn't respond have never experienced a transmission issue?

If it's 6 out of 2,000, that's not so bad. Would be nice if it was 0 of 1,000,000 but...

Companies like Toyota and Porsche, who sell hundreds of thousands every year. What are their actual failure rates? We know that every single vehicle manufacturer does have recalls and TSBs.

Yer decimal place is misplaced.
But the survey is not statistically valid.

 

[4Canada]

If 'the shield' was really that important, AR would have it listed as a TSB and we'd all have our cars in for service. But it's being treated as an afterthought of no importance. Then again, if it's of no importance, why is AR including it on the later cars? Has anybody found Mario's pencil yet?

Somebody, take an endoscope and look for it under the shield!

I was going through the same reasoning, Racer Z. But we're applying logic to an Alfa decision. no wonder my head hurts.

 

[4Canada]

Just to bring this up in the active posts so people don't forget to vote so we can measure the real extent of the gear box problem issue.

I find it hard to believe 16% of the cars (5/31) have had the issue seeing the poor response (that would be a bit of an epidemic). So the vast majority are probably uncounted no problem cars whose owners haven't bothered to vote or to look into their car's engine compartment). It would be nice to know the real number.

If we get enough entries (a few hundred would be good), the +shield and -shield groups should have a roughly equal distribution of car with an easy life.

We have 2700 members, of which a couple hundred attend the site once a week or more.
The thread has been viewed over 800 times, but I have no idea how many are repeat visits, web crawlers, or guests visiting the page perhaps researching a purchase.
Of course, guests cannot vote.
My guess would be that very few members who have a problem and have seen the thread, will not have voted.
Many who do not have the issue won't have even opened the topic, or if they did, perhaps not cared enough to vote.
In that respect, we will likely never have a representation of the relative magnitude of the issue.
We cannot even say if the problems experienced are all the same origin. In fact, they are almost certainly not, based on what a few of the fixes have been.

The results might be somewhat informative, but are pretty far from scientific. Sadly, I don't see that changing over time.
What it may still show us in the long run is whether or not the "with shield" group experiences a similar rate of failure to those without the shield.
And I guess that's what you really wanted to see in the first place.

 

[4Canada]

What is the distinction between occasional and consistent? Does consistent require less than a particular number of miles or shifts before the problem arises?

Good question.

My thought is that "occasional" would suggest that you've had a transmission error or two, but not with any regular frequency. "Hmmm, I wonder what just happened. I must mention that to the dealer on my next service".
"Consistent" means that it happens regularly enough that you are worried about it. Probably (but not necessarily) reproducible for the mechanic on a test drive. You probably have or shortly will involve the service department. It is affecting your trust/enjoyment of the car.

Certainly, "occasional" might be a precursor to "consistent" problems.

I based this on reading earlier reports/threads where some people have chimed in that they "had that happen once", while others have obviously experienced far more severe issues.
It was an attempt to dig deeper into the extent of the problem. Maybe foolishly.

 

[4Canada]

My point is, not all transmission problems may have the same origin.
IF somebody with a shield got their issue fixed by replacing a push-button on the console, but most people's without a shield don't get fixed without a TCU & wiring harness replacement, that also tells us something.
I believe that the "fixed" options (along with any description people add) might prune some of the outliers from the data set.

Otherwise, we might be researching the equivalent of whether right-handed people have more left knee pain than southpaws, without even realizing it!

 

[4Canada]

Whether it's been fixed or not isn't really the point of this thread, is it? The fact that the individual car has experienced transmission problems is more to the point, correct?

Well, given that there are 4 categories for "fixed", it sort of is.
Ideally, everybody could move to that category, but not likely by the time they'll vote.
Of course, voting for "fixed" is like poking the bear.

CDN$0.02 billed to your account. :wink2:

 

[4Canada]

My car is currently in the shop for this problem. I have 1113 miles in it and should have more info from the dealer tomorrow. When I spoke with the service advisor he said another car just left yesterday with the same problem. Should I wait to get my car back and test it for a week or so before answering the poll?

PistolPete, I'd suggest you give it a good long test drive before voting.
That's just based on some others' experiences here.
Hoping you can call it "fixed". Fingers crossed for you.

 

[4Canada]

I think that I transferred all of the comments describing failures, fixes, etc.

Any information you would care to post to help describe what you were experiencing (including error codes and their meanings) would be helpful.

We do have a list of known codes in the "Technical Reference and DIY" sticky thread in the Engine and Technical section of the forum. I'll try to keep adding to this list as more are discovered/defined.

Build date, whether your car is a coupe or spider, LE or SE, might also be good information to post below.

Thanks for your contributions!

 

[4Canada]

Page 4 and 5 comments:

2016 4C Spider. November 2015 Build Date. Shield on TCU (Transmission Control Module). Failed at 900 miles. Only ran in 'Limp Mode' (Natural / Automatic). Happened several days after the one and only time I washed it. There have always been water spots on the shield, but a noticable amount of water made it into the engine compartment when I did wash it. Dealer, Orange Coast Fiat in Costa Mesa where I purchased it replaced the TCU after going back and forth with the Technicians / Engineering Team in Michigan. Took about a week to get the OK from the Alfa Team and almost another week for the part to be shipped. Car now has 1600 miles, no issues since. The dealer technician did review all of the issues with SportCoupe's and RacerZ's. I am friends with both and my technician was able to pull both files. This took place after RacerZ's "Software Patch" but before the latest issue with SportCoupe's.

Just for the records, i have the feedback of about 10 4c in Italy that are being regularly tracked (meaning at least once a month, more often twice a month), at least 3/4 of them quite pushed too, and about other 10 that running on road only. We had not transmission issues on the road ones, some (3/4) of the most tracked had some rare issue (rare meaning less than once a year of use) of gearbox switching to degraded mode, with self recovery after some minutes of pause. This has happened regardless of ambient temperature and more often on low temperature than high. I will try to pay more attention but I'm feeling that on most cases the weather conditions were damp/wet. O had it just once, on the last session at the Red Bull ring, wet. It was the last session of the day (so after a total of 3 hours), in the last minutes of a 45 min, no pause session. The car recovered alone after 2 minutes of cool down.

 

[4Canada]

From Page 3 of prior discussion:

After having the hydraulic pump and smart drive module replaced (two separate service events), our car has faulted again. Same as before, codes p1cc0-00 and b1067-67. The dealer is resetting the codes but I will drive it 500 miles tomorrow for relocation. I will be using automatic mode and crossing my fingers.

I believe mine would be a #5.

It doesn't appear that I have this metal shelf. Not sure where it is. In front of the battery towards to drivers seat or next to the battery on the left? Either way there isn't a metal shelf. The tranny problem has happened 2 times in the last 2 times I've driven the vehicle. I'm currently waiting for the tow truck to bring it to the dealer. I will update all results etc. once I have more info.

 

[4Canada]

More from previous thread (page 2)

#90 is an early LE without the shield. The internal wires and the connections to the plug are exposed for all to see.
I tried Docron's tie wrap test and found that the engine compartment was somewhat protected by an internal plastic(?) lining applied to the bodywork that serves a barrier to the entry of water.
(I am almost afraid to type this) We have experienced no transmission problems.

I think that a solution such as the fix applied by Docron would be more effective in protecting the plug from moisture than the shield.

Mine is an LE car. I am problem #5. Dealer has replaced tranny pump, accumulator and regulator, and software patch. Now looking at DNA selector switch and paddle shifters.

#6 - problem started as a fault that locked out manual mode and defaulted to natural. Then got worse to the point the car would fault and shift uncommanded into neutral whilst driving.

Problem occurred ~5,000km and the dealer eventually replaced the transmission and battery.
I don't have the TCM shield yet but have since shielded it with some plastic sheet and zip ties.

No shield.
Stock car.

Problem went from occasional to consistent given enough time. Eventually fixed.

I like the additional criteria to include.
Dynamic, Manual always.
Car lives out-of-doors.
Washed with water once a month.
Daily driver.
15,000 miles (maybe) when problems started.
18,000 miles when fixed.

Driving styles (for me):
Daily city.
Spirited twisties.
Tracked once or twice.

I always keep my foot on the brake pedal when stopped, or, I press the N button.
ALWAYS.

No shield, no problems. 50,000km

 

[4Canada]

Some comments from the previous thread on this:
http://4c-forums.com/16-engine-technical/33450-transmission-poll-discussion.html

#7 for me although I have a new TCM waiting for me to be installed at Service next week.
We won't know if my TCM has been corrupted (from water or whatever else) until they take it out and analyze it.

#90 is an early LE without the shield. The internal wires and the connections to the plug are exposed for all to see.
I tried Docron's tie wrap test and found that the engine compartment was somewhat protected by an internal plastic(?) lining applied to the bodywork that serves a barrier to the entry of water.
(I am almost afraid to type this) We have experienced no transmission problems.

I think that a solution such as the fix applied by Docron would be more effective in protecting the plug from moisture than the shield.

9. NO problem
NO TCU shield
13k miles
received July 2015
built February 2015
SE coupe