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So they agree with the factory manual, slight toe out in front, toe in in back.

RacerZ, I think your dealer read the specs backwards too. When given in degrees, positive is in and negative is out.
 
Here's an illustration from the spare parts catalogue with the part number. It's the plate number 8 that is used when adjusting camber. When I've got mine I'll update you with thickness and how many you can expect to need.
That would be appreciated, thanks. It would be interesting to know how much one plate affects camber. I will be installing new coil overs from Squadra Sportiva next weekend. Also, I checked my current alignment and found it to be within factory specifications.
 
Discussion starter · #27 ·
You had mentioned going to an alignment shop because the book was wrong. Did you? Would you share who it was if you did?
I went to Fox Tire and Automotive in Northridge, CA.
http://www.foxtireandauto.com/

I took my car in cause it drove like crap. Turns out the front camber was nowhere near what it should be.

The service manual seems to be ... hard to follow ... by USA standards. Some of the European members have explained it in this forum and the book might be correct.

I'm still waiting on new shims.
 
From degrees to inches is not rocket sceince for example 0,25 degrees and a distance of 19 inches between the points at which you measure the toe distance gives a toe distance of
Sin(0,25) x 19 = 0,083 inch and thats around 5/64 inch
 
Discussion starter · #31 ·
From degrees to inches is not rocket sceince for example 0,25 degrees and a distance of 19 inches between the points at which you measure the toe distance gives a toe distance of
Sin(0,25) x 19 = 0,083 inch and thats around 5/64 inch
In lay terms, 1/16 to 1/8 out?
 
Just checked the pages you posted for the front they state a negative toe in so that makes it a toe out tmho. They also state it as a half toe in so for one wheel as when measuring distance for the toe in you always measure both Wheels at the same time the math for a full tank and front Wheels is Sin((2 X 5)/60)x18 = 0,05" thats a toe out between 1/16 and 3/64
 
True, with zero toe or slight toe-in the front end will be more stable, which is generally desired for straight-line driving. Might be a good choice for you for street driving. But - be aware that it will require you to throw the weight around a bit more to get it to turn on the track. That will make a the edge between grip and spin even more ragged. Just be careful if you go back out.
 
To add some fuel to the alignment discussion, I provide the following quote from a question I posed to Squadra Sportiva:

"Please note that the 4C is a rear wheel drive, they need a little bit toe-out.
At front wheel drive you need toe-in.

Yes, the front axle must have a minus toe (toe-out).
We recommend for each side:
front toe: -3 to -6 minutes (or correctly: -0°3' to -0°6')

Of course 0 to -2 minutes will work also fine but with more toe-out your 4C do not wander so much on rain grooves (ruts?). So 0°0' is also fine on very plain roads. On balance you must find your alignment for your local area and your personal likes. Do not change to many parameters at one time"
 
This weekend I installed the KZ coilovers provided by Squadra Sportiva. The LE stock coilovers are quite stout, use progressive springs and are manufactured in Poland. The KZ shocks permit ride height and rebound adjustment. I have attached a picture of the stock and KZ units for comparison. The rear stock units weigh 18.4 lbs, the KZ replacements 14lbs. The replacement was straight forward following the instructions in the Alfa reference material found on this site. It was not necessary to disconnect the steering knuckle as shown in the instructions, one can easily remove and replace the shock with no further dis-assembly than removing the two connecting bolts for the coilovers. The KZ rear units came with all the brackets supplied on the stock unit.

I set the ride height about .4 inches higher than Squadra's recommendation to compensate for our local road conditions - the setting still seem to be somewhat lower than stock - time will tell.

I have not realigned the car since I finished the replacement. As recommended by Squadra I set the rears to -1 degree camber using the eccentric bolt on the rear bold on the top shock mount. It does not appear that any shims have been used to set the camber on the front. My impression of the car from a brief installation ride is that the suspension is more compliant with the new shocks. I plan to take the car into a Porsche alignment shop this week to get the car aligned. My plan is to set the front toe to negative toe in as described above. Currently the front is set to positive toe.

The purchase of the units from Squadra Sportiva was straight forward, they did not charge VAT and the units arrived in less than a week from order; they have also been most helpful in answering my email questions.
 

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Discussion starter · #37 ·
I have shims on order now. They are about $8 each. I think I need 8 or 10 so I ordered 10. It seems all shims are the same thickness.
Shims are still on back-order. Last week I finally called FCA and asked about this. They said they needed to check a few things and would get back to me. They called me today and said the shims are 'in transit'. They used 'expedite' which is a fancy word for 'hurry'. FCA told me my shims will be here in two or three days, which puts Friday as the point of interest.

Should I start holding my breath now? Or wait until later?
 
Discussion starter · #38 ·
Success

I finally recieved my shims, had the car aligned and have put about 200 miles on it. It drives terrific! Just like it should. Better than before I crashed it.

The shim part number is: 0050525774-001
Ricambi Original "Made in Italy"
Price: $5.85 each. (USD)
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The alignment shop added three shims to one point on the left lower control arm. That put both the camber and caster in spec. Then he set the tow.

......................................front --------|| .......... rear
...................caster; .....camber; ...tow|| .....camber; tow
...............left; right; ..left; right; ------ || ..left; right;
Before: +3.0; +2.3; -0.5; -1.0; -1/16|| -1.70; -1.60; +1/32
-.After: +2.1; +2.2; -1.0; -1.1; ... 0.0|| -1.80; -1.60; +7/32
-.Spec: +2.1; +2.1; -1.0; -1.0; -1/16|| -1.75; -1.75; +1/4

When my car was new, before I crashed it, it drove OK. Some tram-lining from rain grooves but not bad. Being a motorcyclist from way back, I'm kind of use to that so it didn't really bother me. The changes in road surface would wiggle the car at times, but not enough for me to be concerned.

Then I crashed my car, bent some stuff including a control arm, had it repaired and sent out for alignment. Got the car back and it drove like crap. The tram-lining was horrific! The changes in road surface was murder. If the two sides had different types of bedding, the car was going in two directions at the same time. It kept trying to change lanes. I was being tossed around like a ship in a stormy sea.

Now, with the alignment in spec, the car is smooth. Better than new. Rain grooves don't exist. Gone. Completely. Uneven roads, not a problem. Changes in road texture barely exist.

I've driven almost 200 miles over the roads and lanes that used to toss the car and it drives like a perfect new road, all the time. I can drive two fingered over roads that used to require two fists. I am not exaggerating here. I am dead serious.

The only time my car felt good was on perfect new roads. Now the worst road feels like a new perfect road.

To continue with my saga: When I first got my car back after the crash repair, I told them something was wrong with the alignment. They said their shop set it and that is that. I finally took my car to an independent shop and found it was nowhere near spec. Waited several months for new shims, had it put in spec, documented everything and went back to my dealer, with proof.

They refunded me the $150 they had charged me. My shop only charged me $100. But the $$$ is not the point.


I suspect that AR didn't do much of an alignment before the cars left Italy. All the reporters who complained about how crappy the car drives, and all the new owners with a similar complaint.... well... it seems that the alignment on the 4C is more critical than other cars with less feedback.
 
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