Wow. Bad day. Hope they figure it out quickly, and hope that the guy who drove into the back of you brings you many gifts...

 

Only the gift of insurance

 

Very sorry to hear, Gilly.
Also, might be important, as (if memory serves) this is the first non-N. American spec car reported to to suffer this affliction.
I think we've had about 4 US cars with similar symptoms. It seems that transmission replacement (under warranty) was the solution at least once (only after multiple smaller bits were first exchanged, without success). Some are still in the shop.

The 3rd gear is a clue, I think. From reading the workings of the TCT gearbox from Alfa Workshops's site, the neutral thing is a protection. But the even an odd gears are on diffent shafts. A hydraulic activator pump engages or disengages either. That pump has been suspect in at least one such failure (see Racer Z's "Inconsistent Problems" thread), but the problem persisted after replacement. The link to jamiealfa's description of e TCT is in the "how it works" sticky on the technical and engine page.

Good luck, and we're all hoping for a quick resolution. Please let us know.

 

Thanks 4Canada - have read through the previous threads and Jamie's excellent write up on the TCT architecture. I must admit mine feel a little more electrical than an outright mechanical failure but the pump certainly could be a culprit as well.

But that's what makes these forums so valuable to owners - this sort of shared information is a powerful ally when dealing with these issues.

 

we had a similar issue in italy, on one car... was a faulty cabling, replaced under warranty

 

Good to know - especially the relatively simple fix on that one!

 

Gilly, sorry to hear of your troubles and hope that your issues are quickly resolved.

It seems, based upon an unscientific observation, that owners that have transmission problems regularly use manual mode.
Not inditing anyone for acceptable behavior just wondering if use of that mode is somehow connected to the failure.

 

Enziof and 4Canada, mine was one of the cars to have the transmission replaced. I got it back last week. Yes, I have normally driven the car in Manual. The failures occurred in Race and Dynamic/Manual. I think mine was a software issue, because it would not fail in Dynamic/Auto or Normal/Auto, no matter how hard I drove it.

 

Oh crap. Just what I didn't want to hear.

I've crashed my car and had transmission failure, just in the same day.

Currently, my car is in with transmission issues. The only good news is warranty will cover the transmission problem. Both you and me.

 

Ive just taken the centre console out of my car and noticed that the cables running to the shift selector panel were really really squashed. almost flat.. seriously , very concerning , i'm going to get my auto electrician to take a better look,


not sure if this could cause a fault or even be your problem but maybe worth looking at.

 

Thanks for the tip, certainly sounds like something worth raising with the service department.

Got an update a couple of days ago, Alfa have provided a revised software version apparently and the car was tested with no faults so far. I'm a little dubious since the frequency and intensity of the faults seemed to get worse over time, where as I would have thought a pure software glitch to be purely random in nature.

Unfortunately there still waiting for the assessment on the rear bumper damage for the subsequent rear-ender so I haven't got the car back yet to assess for myself.

Will keep you updated and will try to find out what version the software changed from and to..

 

"Hmm" (very loud)

 

Having re-read your first post and your latest post, part of what you describe is similar to a problem that was wide in the NA market. I don't recall any of us being stuck though.

Clearly this is a problem your dealer and FCA will workout, not us. But it does make good conversation.

When I first got my LE last year, while stuck in stop-n-go traffic, the orange gear would come on and the transmission would go into natural mode. The computer seemed to think the clutches were overheating, which wasn't true. The car drove and shifted just fine. AR released a software update that corrected this.

All was good for me until about a month ago. With 15,000 miles on my car, the transmission went clunk into neutral and would not let me put it back in gear. They replaced the high pressure oil pump on the transmission which controls the clutches and gear shifts.

About a thousand miles later, same symptoms. Now they suspect the voltage regulator has failed. The high pressure oil pump works between 4.5 and 5.5 bar normally (65-80 psi). The pressure is controlled by the voltage regulator.

Waiting on the new regulator as we speak.

Unlike you, my car never got stuck in gear. When the computer realized there was a problem, it put the transmission into neutral.

 

Racer Z, good information thanks - it provided a good history of events that are probably spread over several threads.

Initially my failure would only result in the transmission going into Auto mode gears would still change as normally in Auto mode.

On the last couple of occasions, the box seem to hold onto 3rd rather than shift up or down and after coming to rest the box would automatic shift into neutral and stay there until I turn the car off and restarted it or it clear itself.

Certainly hope it is only software - might be booking in another track day soon to test it proper!

 

That blows!

How were you monitoring the voltage?
Any chance that the battery has always been marginal?
Just a thought, but modern electronics can be finicky.
But I'm no mechanic. Sadly, yours aren't much help either.

 

Gilly, it unfortunate that you have to go through this experience, adding insult to injury. I can tell you that you're not alone in this type of experience.

I've had to call FCA (Fiat Chrysler of America) almost every time my 4C has had a problem. Not because the dealer doesn't care, they do, but because when they get stuck and need help, help does not arrive.

The service repair manual, the one I can't see or purchase, is hard to use and may not have answers. OBDII codes that start with P0xxx are generic public codes, all others such as P1xxx or PZxxx are private manufacturer codes and don't have to be shared publicly. Alfa is so scared, they won't even tell their dealer mechanics what these codes mean. The dealer is stuck waiting for AR to respond, as you're experiencing. When the dealer thinks they've found the problem, they can't do much without approval from AR.

My experience, as frustrating as it has been, is that I had to call FCA weekly in order to keep them motivated. Now, a new problem will arise. Your actual problem started months ago, probably months before the car got smashed. But, when you call FCA (Fiat Chrysler of Australia) they will view this as a new case starting today. The only good news is that both you and your dealer can badger them from both sides at the same time.

Work with your dealer on this. Tell them what you're doing and why. Take the, yuk, diplomatic path. They've already hinted that this is what they want you to do.

 

...
Work with your dealer on this. Tell them what you're doing and why. Take the, yuk, diplomatic path. They've already hinted that this is what they want you to do.

I suspect that, if you were in America (home of the Free, land of the Litigious), you'd already have had your lawyer in touch with Fiat Chrysler on this. After all, it was their defective vehicle that put you into an accident that has affected your health and you can no longer enjoy sex properly again because of it. OK, so I made that last part up. Thankfully, you are OK. Now we need your car to be, as well.

Racer is right - you need to work as a team with your dealership, to tag-team FCA into responding. I wouldn't entirely rule out the lawyer card for future use, if you don't get anywhere with the manufacturer. I don't know what kind of consumer protection laws you have, but there are certainly liability and negligence torts to rely on. But for now, you have the experience of this forum to back your own observations up with. There is some sort of issue, and it has to be fixed.

Can you go out on a test-drive with the mechanic? Since your fault appeared in manual mode, as most of the failures over here have, you may need to be abundantly clear that the test drive has to be in M. The car seems to behave properly in Automatic, once the code has been cleared.
Just a thought.

 

Thanks RacerZ and 4Canda - sage advice from both of you and I think your right that I need take the diplomatic path.

I checked battery voltage earlier and cleaned up the terminals just in case- the low voltage has me intrigued. I think I will arrange a auto electrician friend and see if there is some sort of logging device I can put on the car to monitor the voltage and any unusual spikes or dips.

Also, I installed a reverse camera not too long ago and must admit the problems only car after the installation - I will have this removed and checked to.

Will certainly let the forum know if I find anything.

 

Thanks RacerZ and 4Canda - sage advice from both of you and I think your right that I need take the diplomatic path.

I checked battery voltage earlier and cleaned up the terminals just in case- the low voltage has me intrigued. I think I will arrange a auto electrician friend and see if there is some sort of logging device I can put on the car to monitor the voltage and any unusual spikes or dips.

Also, I installed a reverse camera not too long ago and must admit the problems only car after the installation - I will have this removed and checked to.

Will certainly let the forum know if I find anything.

Gilly, not sure if it will work on our cars or not, but I have something called a ScanGauge II on my Honda.

http://www.scangauge.com/products/scangaugeii/

It is a fairly inexpensive real-time display of up to 4 of any available OBDII-read parameters. Not sure if voltage is available on the Alfa (it is on the Honda, and is one of the things I routinely monitor). Plus, it can also be used to read and reset error codes.

Something like this might give you an idea if voltage is dipping low on a regular basis, or whether there is something else going on at the same time that your faults occur. Of course, this is the kind of diagnostic (on a more professional level) that I would expect a dealership to carry out. But they might not know where to look either. Especially since they cannot replicate the failure.

I'd try putting mine into the 4C to test it out, except that it is rather built into the Honda. And both cars are off the road for winter.

Just a thought.

 

Things are even worst in Canada. In Toronto there is basically one dealership. (there are actually 2 but they are both owned by the same guy). Monopoly situation usually don't work in favour of the customer... Not sure if independent mechanics have enough knowledge to work on the 4C yet.

 

Hi Gilly / Low voltage condition?

Hi Gilly,
Sorry to hear of transmission issues. When I read a contributing factor may be a voltage drop I wanted to respond. We sell the 4C here in South Carolina USA. We have sold over 20 Alfa 4Cs so far and over 1200 Fiats since 2012. The 500L 4 door vehicle uses the same transmission case and other transmission components. One common component is the ground cable "thumb actuated" clamp on the negative side of the battery post, which is the EXACT same clamp used on the Fiat 500L and even the new 500X. At first glance the battery post may look very, very clean. However, we have seen many cases of fault codes (even multiple simultaneous failure fault codes) that trace back to a temporary low voltage condition. Slight corrosion that can easily trigger under voltage fault and failure to re-energize the battery as you drive. Remember that most fault codes are the simple reporting of a low or high voltage condition that is past the "normal" threshold.
The double band cable clamp on the negative side is especially subject to corrosion, especially on the lower band loop on the post. Since the clamp is exposed to damp or wet conditions, soap residue, etc... it does not take long to get a little corrosion and therefore a possible voltage drop.
Please take a moment to pop the thumb lever open, closely examine and clean the post and especially lower band, then re-seat it firmly to the bottom on the battery post and flip the lever closed and tight.
So many times we see this flash corrosion on the Fiat based thumb lever negative clamp underside. I would encourage every Alfa 4C owner to check theirs but please make sure its clean and placed down low and tight on the post as you found it. You will not lose any car settings unless you leave it off for 15 minutes or more. This procedure costs nothing but a few minutes with a battery brush. As they say.... "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
JOHN MONTGOMERY
BENSON ALFA ROMEO & FIAT STUDIO
john@bensonfiat.com

 

just after I got mine I cleaned it and coated with dielectric grease.

Hi Gilly,
Sorry to hear of transmission issues. When I read a contributing factor may be a voltage drop I wanted to respond. We sell the 4C here in South Carolina USA. We have sold over 20 Alfa 4Cs so far and over 1200 Fiats since 2012. The 500L 4 door vehicle uses the same transmission case and other transmission components. One common component is the ground cable "thumb actuated" clamp on the negative side of the battery post, which is the EXACT same clamp used on the Fiat 500L and even the new 500X. At first glance the battery post may look very, very clean. However, we have seen many cases of fault codes (even multiple simultaneous failure fault codes) that trace back to a temporary low voltage condition. Slight corrosion that can easily trigger under voltage fault and failure to re-energize the battery as you drive. Remember that most fault codes are the simple reporting of a low or high voltage condition that is past the "normal" threshold.
The double band cable clamp on the negative side is especially subject to corrosion, especially on the lower band loop on the post. Since the clamp is exposed to damp or wet conditions, soap residue, etc... it does not take long to get a little corrosion and therefore a possible voltage drop.
Please take a moment to pop the thumb lever open, closely examine and clean the post and especially lower band, then re-seat it firmly to the bottom on the battery post and flip the lever closed and tight.
So many times we see this flash corrosion on the Fiat based thumb lever negative clamp underside. I would encourage every Alfa 4C owner to check theirs but please make sure its clean and placed down low and tight on the post as you found it. You will not lose any car settings unless you leave it off for 15 minutes or more. This procedure costs nothing but a few minutes with a battery brush. As they say.... "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
JOHN MONTGOMERY
BENSON ALFA ROMEO & FIAT STUDIO
john@bensonfiat.com

 

Dielectric grease.

 

I'm bumping this post because I just had the exact same issues minus the rear end collision and I'm curious if this problem has been fixed over the past 5 months and if so what was needed?

 

Well, just kicking this thread. Also my 4c starts to make gearbox failures. The alfa dealer did a scan and I don't have the new patch. But, in the system he couldn't find it, so they gonna call Alfa Romeo Netherlands.
The problems I face are that sometimes the car only can drive in first, third and fifth gear and sometimes I can't select a gear. It only seems to happen when the car it still hot after a hard ride. I never get the faults when driving, only when starting the car when it is still hot.

 

Sounds like perhaps a clutch on the even gears shaft.
Hopefully the software patch will correct it.
Does it act up in automatic mode as well?

 

i would start from checking robot mechanism fluid level.
i't a white plastic canister with a white screw on cap on the engine near the battery.

 

I will check the level of oil later this week. And it does not appear when driving. It is when I start the car it gives the failure. Code 0915. Weak signal of 2nd and 4th gear sensor, or something like that.
Let see what's happen with the new software.

 

Well, the dealer gave me a call and said that they spoke to Alfa Romeo Netherlands and that they claim there is no update?! What kind of rubbish is that?
They now gonna make an appointment to check cables and the hydrolic pump.

 

I went through this a few years ago. Since then so have others. For all of us, including you, the symptoms all seem very similar, yet each car/dealer has taken a different approach/path to resolving the issues. I think, in the end, all have been fixed, but the road is long and frustrating. In my case, they did replace a lot of parts (one at a time) with no change. In the end, I was issued a special software patch that seems to have fixed my issues.

The problem that I see, for us 4C owners who are trying to troubleshoot our cars, is that Alfa won't tell each of us anything about what really failed. So, we can't compare notes and have a collective understanding about the differences in failures. I think, that in the end, each car has had a slightly different problem and therefore a slightly different solution. Again, we don't know enough to verify the similarities and differences. It's really unfortunate.

What I can tell you is, hang in there. They will eventually fix it. If it takes to long, you do have other options. Calling FCA and making a formal complaint is one. Lemon Law (car buy-back) is a last-ditch effort, but an option. Patience is the key.

 

Be patient but also persistent.

 

I will... Seems to me that there must be something with:

1. The sensors of the 2nd, 4th and/or 6th gear
or/and
2. The wiring
or/and
3. The oil pressure of the clutch

But, I'm not a technician. Let's hope she will be back soon...

 

Well the dealer gave me a call. I seems to be a problem in the hydraulic magnetic valve. They replaced them and are going to test the car. I hope this will fix the problem. All other parts, computer, wiring, etc. was all good.

 

Good luck. Lets hope this solves the issue and you get your car back :smile2:

 

Getting in on this thread I start by saying that we are lucky that ours is an enthusiasts-driven brand. Much of the knowledge needed to get issues sorted on my 4C (and my GTA clone) came not from official manuals and dealers but from feedback on our forums.
I suggest that writers indicate both model (LE vs SE) and year to filter out affected cars.
Mine is a 2016 SE and kept throwing TCT errors but only when battery went flat. Haven't seen it again since it went out of the shop and driven more regularly... I would think that Alfa may have done 'something' to correct software in 2016 (???).

Sent from my F8332 using Tapatalk

 

Have this problem since yesterday. Only odd gears work.
Is there a clear solution to this now?
Battery pole? Software? Hydraulic magnetic valve?

 

Surely it’s thrown a code or two? Gear actuator failure? Take it in to service and let us know what they diagnose is the problem. How many km/miles has your 4C done?