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Things are even worst in Canada. In Toronto there is basically one dealership. (there are actually 2 but they are both owned by the same guy). Monopoly situation usually don't work in favour of the customer... Not sure if independent mechanics have enough knowledge to work on the 4C yet.
 
Thanks RacerZ and 4Canda - sage advice from both of you and I think your right that I need take the diplomatic path.

I checked battery voltage earlier and cleaned up the terminals just in case- the low voltage has me intrigued. I think I will arrange a auto electrician friend and see if there is some sort of logging device I can put on the car to monitor the voltage and any unusual spikes or dips.

Also, I installed a reverse camera not too long ago and must admit the problems only car after the installation - I will have this removed and checked to.

Will certainly let the forum know if I find anything.
Gilly, not sure if it will work on our cars or not, but I have something called a ScanGauge II on my Honda.

http://www.scangauge.com/products/scangaugeii/

It is a fairly inexpensive real-time display of up to 4 of any available OBDII-read parameters. Not sure if voltage is available on the Alfa (it is on the Honda, and is one of the things I routinely monitor). Plus, it can also be used to read and reset error codes.

Something like this might give you an idea if voltage is dipping low on a regular basis, or whether there is something else going on at the same time that your faults occur. Of course, this is the kind of diagnostic (on a more professional level) that I would expect a dealership to carry out. But they might not know where to look either. Especially since they cannot replicate the failure.

I'd try putting mine into the 4C to test it out, except that it is rather built into the Honda. And both cars are off the road for winter.

Just a thought.
 
Discussion starter · #23 ·
Gilly, not sure if it will work on our cars or not, but I have something called a ScanGauge II on my Honda.

http://www.scangauge.com/products/scangaugeii/

It is a fairly inexpensive real-time display of up to 4 of any available OBDII-read parameters. Not sure if voltage is available on the Alfa (it is on the Honda, and is one of the things I routinely monitor). Plus, it can also be used to read and reset error codes.

Something like this might give you an idea if voltage is dipping low on a regular basis, or whether there is something else going on at the same time that your faults occur. Of course, this is the kind of diagnostic (on a more professional level) that I would expect a dealership to carry out. But they might not know where to look either. Especially since they cannot replicate the failure.

I'd try putting mine into the 4C to test it out, except that it is rather built into the Honda. And both cars are off the road for winter.

Just a thought.
Thanks 4 Canada- this is along the lines of what I'm looking for, but I think I need something more specialised and sensitive to capture sags and peaks in the voltage and current, and transient currents or voltages that might be playing havoc.

http://www.fluke.com/Fluke/auen/Pow...e/auen/Power-Quality-Tools/Troubleshooting-Power-Meters/Fluke-43B.htm?PID=56080

This is a little out of my depth, so will need an electrical wizard and the right tool!
 
Hi Gilly / Low voltage condition?

Hi Gilly,
Sorry to hear of transmission issues. When I read a contributing factor may be a voltage drop I wanted to respond. We sell the 4C here in South Carolina USA. We have sold over 20 Alfa 4Cs so far and over 1200 Fiats since 2012. The 500L 4 door vehicle uses the same transmission case and other transmission components. One common component is the ground cable "thumb actuated" clamp on the negative side of the battery post, which is the EXACT same clamp used on the Fiat 500L and even the new 500X. At first glance the battery post may look very, very clean. However, we have seen many cases of fault codes (even multiple simultaneous failure fault codes) that trace back to a temporary low voltage condition. Slight corrosion that can easily trigger under voltage fault and failure to re-energize the battery as you drive. Remember that most fault codes are the simple reporting of a low or high voltage condition that is past the "normal" threshold.
The double band cable clamp on the negative side is especially subject to corrosion, especially on the lower band loop on the post. Since the clamp is exposed to damp or wet conditions, soap residue, etc... it does not take long to get a little corrosion and therefore a possible voltage drop.
Please take a moment to pop the thumb lever open, closely examine and clean the post and especially lower band, then re-seat it firmly to the bottom on the battery post and flip the lever closed and tight.
So many times we see this flash corrosion on the Fiat based thumb lever negative clamp underside. I would encourage every Alfa 4C owner to check theirs but please make sure its clean and placed down low and tight on the post as you found it. You will not lose any car settings unless you leave it off for 15 minutes or more. This procedure costs nothing but a few minutes with a battery brush. As they say.... "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
JOHN MONTGOMERY
BENSON ALFA ROMEO & FIAT STUDIO
john@bensonfiat.com
 
just after I got mine I cleaned it and coated with dielectric grease.

Hi Gilly,
Sorry to hear of transmission issues. When I read a contributing factor may be a voltage drop I wanted to respond. We sell the 4C here in South Carolina USA. We have sold over 20 Alfa 4Cs so far and over 1200 Fiats since 2012. The 500L 4 door vehicle uses the same transmission case and other transmission components. One common component is the ground cable "thumb actuated" clamp on the negative side of the battery post, which is the EXACT same clamp used on the Fiat 500L and even the new 500X. At first glance the battery post may look very, very clean. However, we have seen many cases of fault codes (even multiple simultaneous failure fault codes) that trace back to a temporary low voltage condition. Slight corrosion that can easily trigger under voltage fault and failure to re-energize the battery as you drive. Remember that most fault codes are the simple reporting of a low or high voltage condition that is past the "normal" threshold.
The double band cable clamp on the negative side is especially subject to corrosion, especially on the lower band loop on the post. Since the clamp is exposed to damp or wet conditions, soap residue, etc... it does not take long to get a little corrosion and therefore a possible voltage drop.
Please take a moment to pop the thumb lever open, closely examine and clean the post and especially lower band, then re-seat it firmly to the bottom on the battery post and flip the lever closed and tight.
So many times we see this flash corrosion on the Fiat based thumb lever negative clamp underside. I would encourage every Alfa 4C owner to check theirs but please make sure its clean and placed down low and tight on the post as you found it. You will not lose any car settings unless you leave it off for 15 minutes or more. This procedure costs nothing but a few minutes with a battery brush. As they say.... "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
JOHN MONTGOMERY
BENSON ALFA ROMEO & FIAT STUDIO
john@bensonfiat.com
 
Discussion starter · #27 ·
Hi Gilly,
Sorry to hear of transmission issues. When I read a contributing factor may be a voltage drop I wanted to respond. We sell the 4C here in South Carolina USA. We have sold over 20 Alfa 4Cs so far and over 1200 Fiats since 2012. The 500L 4 door vehicle uses the same transmission case and other transmission components. One common component is the ground cable "thumb actuated" clamp on the negative side of the battery post, which is the EXACT same clamp used on the Fiat 500L and even the new 500X. At first glance the battery post may look very, very clean. However, we have seen many cases of fault codes (even multiple simultaneous failure fault codes) that trace back to a temporary low voltage condition. Slight corrosion that can easily trigger under voltage fault and failure to re-energize the battery as you drive. Remember that most fault codes are the simple reporting of a low or high voltage condition that is past the "normal" threshold.
The double band cable clamp on the negative side is especially subject to corrosion, especially on the lower band loop on the post. Since the clamp is exposed to damp or wet conditions, soap residue, etc... it does not take long to get a little corrosion and therefore a possible voltage drop.
Please take a moment to pop the thumb lever open, closely examine and clean the post and especially lower band, then re-seat it firmly to the bottom on the battery post and flip the lever closed and tight.
So many times we see this flash corrosion on the Fiat based thumb lever negative clamp underside. I would encourage every Alfa 4C owner to check theirs but please make sure its clean and placed down low and tight on the post as you found it. You will not lose any car settings unless you leave it off for 15 minutes or more. This procedure costs nothing but a few minutes with a battery brush. As they say.... "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
JOHN MONTGOMERY
BENSON ALFA ROMEO & FIAT STUDIO
john@bensonfiat.com
I had seen this suggested sometime early and I've had some problems on our Fiat500 due to a bad terminal connection. I however cleaned this up some time ago and applied carbon grease to both terminals - for a while there I thought that had fixed the issues - but no unfortunately.....:huh:
 
I'm bumping this post because I just had the exact same issues minus the rear end collision and I'm curious if this problem has been fixed over the past 5 months and if so what was needed?
 
Well, just kicking this thread. Also my 4c starts to make gearbox failures. The alfa dealer did a scan and I don't have the new patch. But, in the system he couldn't find it, so they gonna call Alfa Romeo Netherlands.
The problems I face are that sometimes the car only can drive in first, third and fifth gear and sometimes I can't select a gear. It only seems to happen when the car it still hot after a hard ride. I never get the faults when driving, only when starting the car when it is still hot.
 
i would start from checking robot mechanism fluid level.
i't a white plastic canister with a white screw on cap on the engine near the battery.
 
Well, just kicking this thread. Also my 4c starts to make gearbox failures. The alfa dealer did a scan and I don't have the new patch. But, in the system he couldn't find it, so they gonna call Alfa Romeo Netherlands.
The problems I face are that sometimes the car only can drive in first, third and fifth gear and sometimes I can't select a gear. It only seems to happen when the car it still hot after a hard ride. I never get the faults when driving, only when starting the car when it is still hot.
Sounds like perhaps a clutch on the even gears shaft.
Hopefully the software patch will correct it.
Does it act up in automatic mode as well?
 
I will check the level of oil later this week. And it does not appear when driving. It is when I start the car it gives the failure. Code 0915. Weak signal of 2nd and 4th gear sensor, or something like that.
Let see what's happen with the new software.
 
Well, the dealer gave me a call and said that they spoke to Alfa Romeo Netherlands and that they claim there is no update?! What kind of rubbish is that?
They now gonna make an appointment to check cables and the hydrolic pump.
 
Well, the dealer gave me a call and said that they spoke to Alfa Romeo Netherlands and that they claim there is no update?! What kind of rubbish is that?
They now gonna make an appointment to check cables and the hydrolic pump.
I went through this a few years ago. Since then so have others. For all of us, including you, the symptoms all seem very similar, yet each car/dealer has taken a different approach/path to resolving the issues. I think, in the end, all have been fixed, but the road is long and frustrating. In my case, they did replace a lot of parts (one at a time) with no change. In the end, I was issued a special software patch that seems to have fixed my issues.

The problem that I see, for us 4C owners who are trying to troubleshoot our cars, is that Alfa won't tell each of us anything about what really failed. So, we can't compare notes and have a collective understanding about the differences in failures. I think, that in the end, each car has had a slightly different problem and therefore a slightly different solution. Again, we don't know enough to verify the similarities and differences. It's really unfortunate.

What I can tell you is, hang in there. They will eventually fix it. If it takes to long, you do have other options. Calling FCA and making a formal complaint is one. Lemon Law (car buy-back) is a last-ditch effort, but an option. Patience is the key.
 
I went through this a few years ago. Since then so have others. For all of us, including you, the symptoms all seem very similar, yet each car/dealer has taken a different approach/path to resolving the issues. I think, in the end, all have been fixed, but the road is long and frustrating. In my case, they did replace a lot of parts (one at a time) with no change. In the end, I was issued a special software patch that seems to have fixed my issues.

The problem that I see, for us 4C owners who are trying to troubleshoot our cars, is that Alfa won't tell each of us anything about what really failed. So, we can't compare notes and have a collective understanding about the differences in failures. I think, that in the end, each car has had a slightly different problem and therefore a slightly different solution. Again, we don't know enough to verify the similarities and differences. It's really unfortunate.

What I can tell you is, hang in there. They will eventually fix it. If it takes to long, you do have other options. Calling FCA and making a formal complaint is one. Lemon Law (car buy-back) is a last-ditch effort, but an option. Patience is the key.
Thanks Racer Z for your great reply.
The car was towed today to the dealer. They will gonna do research. Thanks god, the car still got warrenty.
The problem occurs when you have driven spirited and then shut down the engine. If you want to start it 10 minutes afterwards it will show the gearbox failure and only use 1,3 and 5th gear. If it can put itself in N first of all....
When you drive fast and shut down te engine and immediately (or within a couple of minutes) restart it, there won't be any fault/error.

Seems to me pressure is dropping to hard when cooling down and it isn't able to rebuild pressure. With cold start everything is fine.
 
Thanks Racer Z for your great reply.
The car was towed today to the dealer. They will gonna do research. Thanks god, the car still got warrenty.
The problem occurs when you have driven spirited and then shut down the engine. If you want to start it 10 minutes afterwards it will show the gearbox failure and only use 1,3 and 5th gear. If it can put itself in N first of all....
When you drive fast and shut down te engine and immediately (or within a couple of minutes) restart it, there won't be any fault/error.

Seems to me pressure is dropping to hard when cooling down and it isn't able to rebuild pressure. With cold start everything is fine.
If you want to read about my transmission adventures, read:
http://4c-forums.com/16-engine-technical/21810-inconsistent-problems.html
Be forewarned, there's about 36 pages (355 posts).

My transmission would always put itself into Neutral. I've never experienced it being stuck in gear, I've heard of others though. In my case, when the transmission got hot, even from non-spirited driving, it would go into limp mode. Neutral Gear and Natural Mode. The next morning when cold, everything would be just fine. Eventually I found that it only failed while in manual shift mode, automatic shift mode never failed. Eventually, the problem got worse in that it would fail sooner, and, eventually, the clutches started slipping.

The good news for me is, that a software patched seems to have cured all my pains. I have two years and maybe 15,000 miles now without issue. Total: three years and 29,000 miles.
 
If you want to read about my transmission adventures, read:
http://4c-forums.com/16-engine-technical/21810-inconsistent-problems.html
Be forewarned, there's about 36 pages (355 posts).

My transmission would always put itself into Neutral. I've never experienced it being stuck in gear, I've heard of others though. In my case, when the transmission got hot, even from non-spirited driving, it would go into limp mode. Neutral Gear and Natural Mode. The next morning when cold, everything would be just fine. Eventually I found that it only failed while in manual shift mode, automatic shift mode never failed. Eventually, the problem got worse in that it would fail sooner, and, eventually, the clutches started slipping.

The good news for me is, that a software patched seems to have cured all my pains. I have two years and maybe 15,000 miles now without issue. Total: three years and 29,000 miles.
I asked for this software patch, but it seems that it is only availible for the USA. Yesterday I got a call from Milano! A dutch speaking woman asked me if the technical deparment of Alfa Romeo in Italy could contact the dealer where the car is in service, to think along. They saw my complaint in their system and wanted to help and sort things out, also for them to learn about this problem. Seems te me this problem accurs more often.

Today they start working on my car. Hopefully they will find the problem really soon and I can have my car back. Feels as if my wife left me... :grin2:
 
I asked for this software patch, but it seems that it is only availible for the USA. Yesterday I got a call from Milano! A dutch speaking woman asked me if the technical deparment of Alfa Romeo in Italy could contact the dealer where the car is in service, to think along. They saw my complaint in their system and wanted to help and sort things out, also for them to learn about this problem. Seems te me this problem accurs more often.

Today they start working on my car. Hopefully they will find the problem really soon and I can have my car back. Feels as if my wife left me... :grin2:
Even here in the USA they deny it's existence and don't want to install it. If it will cure and/or prevent problems, why pretend it does not exist?
 
I asked for this software patch, but it seems that it is only availible for the USA. Yesterday I got a call from Milano! A dutch speaking woman asked me if the technical deparment of Alfa Romeo in Italy could contact the dealer where the car is in service, to think along. They saw my complaint in their system and wanted to help and sort things out, also for them to learn about this problem. Seems te me this problem accurs more often.

Today they start working on my car. Hopefully they will find the problem really soon and I can have my car back. Feels as if my wife left me... /images/4C-Forums_2015/smilies/tango_face_grin.png
Even here in the USA they deny it's existence and don't want to install it. If it will cure and/or prevent problems, why pretend it does not exist?
Even Alfa Romeo Italy, the factory, tell me that there is no update for the EU cars. Isn't it true that the US cars have different gearbox software out of the factory? Then it seems to make sense...
 
Even Alfa Romeo Italy, the factory, tell me that there is no update for the EU cars. Isn't it true that the US cars have different gearbox software out of the factory? Then it seems to make sense...
Well, given that our cars are substanially heavier than yours, it may well be that the shifting software is different.
That could also go some distance in explaining the difference in 0-60 / 0-100 times.
Never really considered it up until now.
 
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