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So now clarity is being pedantic? SMH. Guy goes to try Rudi's specs based on recommendation, and then finds out he can't do it. Alignment guy says to him don't be pedantic, we can do toe.

For straight line stability (ignoring turn-in response), toe will do a little bit, caster will do a lot. Hence Jamie's blocks.
You can do camber, though and my race shop didn’t have a problem. I told them not to worry about caster.
I didn’t want to spend hundreds of AUD on Jamies’ blocks (or spacers as he calls them) on a characteristic (steering twitch/instability) that wasn’t an issue for me at road legal speeds (more or less) on the roads I frequent. Toto4C removed his blocks because of the added steering weight and reduced liveliness he experienced. He didn’t like them at all. I respect his opinion as we drive on similar roads and tracks. I’ve gone back to 0 toe simply because of steering instability I was having trouble getting my head around at speeds in excess of 100mph.
 
As I recall, will have to check my records, that the suspension settings are the same factory for all the non Launch Edition cars. The LE cars have different settings...I think it was only front camber where they specify a bit more negative camber. Does anyone remember seeing that?
 
As I recall, will have to check my records, that the suspension settings are the same factory for all the non Launch Edition cars. The LE cars have different settings...I think it was only front camber where they specify a bit more negative camber. Does anyone remember seeing that?
Hi RK, Is this the information you're after?
 

Attachments

Was this set up using a 2x4, or perhaps a tape measure?
What was the name of the architect that Buster was going to use for Mrs. Brown's kitchen cabinets - "Giddy Eye" I think? Was he involved in setting these numbers in any way at all?
I don't think anything as sophisticated as a tape measure was used for this setup, more like an old school ruler and a bit of string.
 
Few alignment tips that can be done on a stock car:

Increasing track performance (increased grip, steering response)


  • Set rear camber (-2°00' per wheel)
  • Set rear toe in (+0°20' per wheel)
  • Set front toe out (-0°04' per wheel)


Increasing road performance (increased straight line stability, possible decreased tire wear)


  • Set rear camber (-1°45' per wheel)
  • Set rear toe in (+0°20' per wheel)
  • Set front toe in (+0°04' per wheel)


Few alignment tips that can be done on a modded car (front camber and caster plates, rear uniball conversion):

Increasing track performance (increased grip, steering response, precision, feedback, dynamic camber change)


  • Set rear camber (-2°30' per wheel)
  • Set rear toe-in (+0°15' to +0°19' per wheel)
  • Set front camber (-2°00' to -3°00' per wheel)
  • Set front caster (+5°00' to +6°00' per wheel)
  • Set front toe (+0°00' per wheel)


Increasing road performance (increased straight line stability, possible decreased tire wear)


  • Set rear camber (-1°45' per wheel)
  • Set rear toe in (+0°18' to +0°20' per wheel)
  • Set front camber (-1°30' to -2°00' per wheel)
  • Set front caster (+4°00' to +5°00' per wheel)
  • Set front toe (+0°04' per wheel)


You can find all the required upgrades here: www.galemotorsport.com

If linking is not allowed then please search the web for our web.

:)
 
Discussion starter · #311 ·
Gale...how about front camber for a stock car track and road? You didn't mention it above.
That would be somewhere between the two numbers. The basic problem with to much camber for daily driving is the bad tire wear. I daily my 4C and have tracked her twice now. The stock numbers work on the track if you don't do a lot of tracking. Rudy's track number are more about a dedicated track car, the serious driver who wants every tenth of second possible. They work well on the track, but I wouldn't want to do a lot of normal driving using track settings.
 
Try Rudi Gales’ road specs. I haven’t tested them at 200km/h but up to 120, solid and stable. I am using 0 deg. front toe.
I ended up with pretty close to those based on the (Kevin) Mayne road specs. Kevin is a friend of mine who did my alignment on Wednesday. Car feels very stable and turn in is good to me. I also installed the Alfa9 Supply (same as the AW) road blocks. I think the keys are that the blocks give me 5 degrees of front caster helping the wheel stay centered, and very little positive toe up front (Kevin says a little is better than absolutely zero because a bump could easily throw you into a toe out situation), and about a 1/4 of a degree of toe in in the rear on each side to prevent severe tire wear. I had the rear tires wear out on my S2000 from too much rear toe, the camber did not seem to have that much effect on tire wear.
104945
 
zero front camber?
The before specs are what I got from installing the AW 'road' alignment blocks and turning the steering rock in 4 flats (to bring back some positive toe on the front). I could get some shims and add them to the bottom mounts in the front to get some camber. Maybe add 1 or two shims on the left side lower mounts, and zero or one on the right side to compensate for the existing camber difference.
 
I'm not sure what all these degrees and minutes etc you chaps are using, but down here we work in millimetres, which seems easy to me. In racing a Can-Am McLaren M8F, (a rear engined car like the 4C), we ran 6mm of toe in per side on the rear, because an 8 liter V8 tends to straighten up the rear end! I'm going to set up the 4C rear with 6mm toe in overall and the front Parallel. Up to 2 degrees negative camber on the front and 1 degree on the back. Front camber 2.4 degrees. I'm checking with another racing 4C and see what he's doing. I'll let you know how that goes.
 
Guys - looking for your expert opinion here. Some background info:

- Running stock teledials with Novitec 15mm spacers all round (need to confirm 100% they are Novitec and 15mm, will check my box of spares/documents). Tires are MPSS 215/40/ZR18 Front and 245/35/ZR19 Rear.

- Putting the first 5-600 miles on my car, the steering had the typical "lively" 4C feel, generally as expected but nothing untoward.

- Car was then stored away for a month or so before the sun came out and I took her for a couple of short drives, before dropping off at dealer for state inspection and alignment. Nothing unusual noted.

- Dealer removed the spacers prior to state inspection (MD :rolleyes:) then re-installed them prior to alignment.

After getting the car back, it's felt slightly twitchier at slower speeds (below 50mph). Above 65mph, I started getting a steering wheel shake which got progressively worse as speed increased. That was felt during a highway run last week. I've booked the car in this weekend for a re-check of the alignment (still within the mileage/timeframe to do this). Weirdly, took her out again today in nice weather to test this again and didn't get as much shaking, but didn't really go above 75mph either.

I haven't got a gauge handy to check tire pressures so am missing that piece of info, though have no reason to believe this has been changed. This could potentially be a big variable at play?

Alignment results are below:
116002


Per Rudi's excellent post above, for road set-up:
  • Set rear camber (-1°45' per wheel)
BEFORE: LR -2.0, RR -1.8
AFTER: LR -2.0, RR -1.8
  • Set rear toe in (+0°23' per wheel)
BEFORE: LR +0.24, RR +0.30
AFTER: LR +0.37, RR +0.34
  • Set front toe in (+0°04' per wheel)
BEFORE: LF -0.13, RF -0.01
AFTER: LF -0.06, RF -0.08


I'm not familiar with the effects of alignment specs - as in - are they "close enough" now to approved factory specs and how much difference it would make to attempt to get closer to Rudi's specs above? Same for the difference between left and right sides - there is a small difference between both, but how significant is it? Is this something I need to push them to get closer?

I will add, my only previous experience in a 4C was in Italy in a rental car (which presumably was abused). It was also a EU model. Though several years ago, I don't recall it being particularly "darty" or unstable at all really, especially at high speeds. Perhaps it was their crazy smooth roads?

Any input greatly appreciated before I drop her off on Friday :)
 
Guys - looking for your expert opinion here. Some background info:

- Running stock teledials with Novitec 15mm spacers all round (need to confirm 100% they are Novitec and 15mm, will check my box of spares/documents). Tires are MPSS 215/40/ZR18 Front and 245/35/ZR19 Rear.

- Putting the first 5-600 miles on my car, the steering had the typical "lively" 4C feel, generally as expected but nothing untoward.

- Car was then stored away for a month or so before the sun came out and I took her for a couple of short drives, before dropping off at dealer for state inspection and alignment. Nothing unusual noted.

- Dealer removed the spacers prior to state inspection (MD :rolleyes:) then re-installed them prior to alignment.

After getting the car back, it's felt slightly twitchier at slower speeds (below 50mph). Above 65mph, I started getting a steering wheel shake which got progressively worse as speed increased. That was felt during a highway run last week. I've booked the car in this weekend for a re-check of the alignment (still within the mileage/timeframe to do this). Weirdly, took her out again today in nice weather to test this again and didn't get as much shaking, but didn't really go above 75mph either.

I haven't got a gauge handy to check tire pressures so am missing that piece of info, though have no reason to believe this has been changed. This could potentially be a big variable at play?

Alignment results are below:
View attachment 116002

Per Rudi's excellent post above, for road set-up:
  • Set rear camber (-1°45' per wheel)
BEFORE: LR -2.0, RR -1.8
AFTER: LR -2.0, RR -1.8
  • Set rear toe in (+0°23' per wheel)
BEFORE: LR +0.24, RR +0.30
AFTER: LR +0.37, RR +0.34
  • Set front toe in (+0°04' per wheel)
BEFORE: LF -0.13, RF -0.01
AFTER: LF -0.06, RF -0.08


I'm not familiar with the effects of alignment specs - as in - are they "close enough" now to approved factory specs and how much difference it would make to attempt to get closer to Rudi's specs above? Same for the difference between left and right sides - there is a small difference between both, but how significant is it? Is this something I need to push them to get closer?

I will add, my only previous experience in a 4C was in Italy in a rental car (which presumably was abused). It was also a EU model. Though several years ago, I don't recall it being particularly "darty" or unstable at all really, especially at high speeds. Perhaps it was their crazy smooth roads?

Any input greatly appreciated before I drop her off on Friday :)
I’d go with zero front toe, not toe-out. What you want changed just depends on what you’re feeling at present.
Edit: I’d want a more equal set of numbers on both side of your car. They need to spend more time getting it right.
 
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