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EPA banning race cars?

6.4K views 43 replies 18 participants last post by  4Canada  
#1 ·
Has anyone been following what the EPA has been doing?

Seems a little crazy and far reaching.

I have a friend in the USA that has been audited by the EPA twice and they are going after tuners and performance part makers, but essentially they would make it impossible to sell performance parts.
 
#2 ·
Saw this on facebook and believe it to be clickbait.

If they cannot force people to wear masks and physical distance to save lives, how can they possibly tell you what you can or cannot do with your own vehicle in order to save the polar bears?
 
#4 ·
I'm with you on how they will enforce it for the end user but they are going after businesses selling parts and tunes.

They can issue a maximum fine per incident to a business at $390K a crack, that can easily bankrupt a business.
 
#5 ·
Didn't we have a similar situation many years ago when CanTire et.al. were being told they could not sell/install performance parts, for a period of time, as they were trying to curb street/stunt racing?
At least that is what my Pcar mechanic told me.
 
#10 ·
Technically we aren't allowed to modify the mechanical emissions since they existed regardless of MY for road cars in Canada, they just don't check. We can however swap the engine out and its exempt.o_O

@OriginalForza apparently its going to be interesting this time. I'm sure if its bad our government will follow suit.
 
#6 ·
not a single American commenting yet!

working in the aftermarket, I can tell you it is real.

would it instantly force an end to all modifications? no However much like many firearms regulations it will begin the end. Without Right to Repair, and protection of these activities the EPA will continue to go after manufacturers and tuners, as any modification to emissions control is now considered illegal, even if the vehicle is never on the road. This is definitely something to worry about.

as a small example I can no longer buy K&N filters through my wholesaler, without becoming an authorized dealer through K&N. They are being forced to control who can sell their product to protect themselves.
 
#7 ·
This has been around for years, and online petitions come up about every other year. Food for thought:

 
#8 ·
With the current "regime" in charge in the US, I fully expect this type of over reach.....and I can see a big push to outlaw car racing other than with EVs. This isn't only in the US. Several countries including some cities in the US are already passing laws to outlaw the sale of IC powered vehicles in just a few years.
SAD.....
 
#16 ·
With the current "regime" in charge in the US, I fully expect this type of over reach...
This has been a thing long before the current regime.

Personally, I think there should be some better laws in place. Those diesels rolling coal should be banned.
 
#9 ·
Lol it's just the state of media here, ignore it. My all American group makes for A FLEET of race cars both decommissioned and active all over the place and only one "fix it" ticket from the local PD a while back to a front fender exiting straight piped Gen2 Viper. EPA isn't a threat to any vehicular enthusiasm at least in Florida.

What "aftermarket" vendors need to read up on is FAKE parts. Please realize China, the people who make these parts at such a scale and cost to their/our environment, crap all over say, K&N's "legal papers" so they must resolve such control over their distribution so that "K+N" doesn't sell you the same or similar filter at a price that didn't include the research, development, quality, etc that K&N had to invest to get the part to exist in the first place, and on the back of a US-based and formed and invented marketplace. You also can't blame "the evil EPA" (btw, a bunch of average, got-their-start-in-the-car-industry Americans at a day job trying to do their best, not volcano-lurking lizard overlords or a board of evil doing the bidding of the nemesis to James Bond) for random people trying to make a street car something it is not, or for the pressure the department gets from the retrograde circus that Washington DC has been since I've graduated middle school: It's just one of the many semi-failing departments that make up the USA "conservative-when-convenient" idiot megasloth. At least our system works okay compared, and we can drive cars like these without having killed or robbed anyone, and can work towards things without too much interference. The people that kill and rob here are one of two types: those that learn how the prison system will never let you be free again because they killed/stole too small, and those that learn the world and space is theirs because they killed/stole so unimaginably wholesale.
 
#21 ·
I’m sorry, but you are WRONG. THIS WILL DESTROY THE AFTERMARKET.



WELL EXPLAINED HERE.

others ask how the sale can be blocked. It can easily. If a road car an not be taken “off road” then no emissions modifying parts can be sold.

It has been bounced for years, but now action is being taken.

Ask farmers how free they are to work on or modify their tractors.

It is chipping g away at our freedoms and livelihood.
 
#12 · (Edited)
No race car bans. This is standard procedure in politics (terror campaign to wipe out an industry). Everyone in the traditional automotive segment is nervous about regulations and bans. Fear is, without competition, the number one persuader.

You threaten an industry; it forces their lobbyists into action; they demonstrate the industry is worth >insert how many billions of dollars and how many constituents< at great direct and indirect costs (what should be seen as bribes) , then we move on. The agency gets some token changes, brings in money from regulations, fines.... consumer costs go up.

If you're in a government agency and you're not terrorizing industries to bring out lobbyists and get all the perks that come with it, you won't be in your role very long.

Rubs crystal ball: Conservatives dominate boating. Ergo, the marine pleasure industry will be all over the news soon.

.
 
#14 ·
How can they legally ban product sales? EPA can force manufacturer to state that the parts are not for public road use but otherwise than that, what is the legal basis for stopping a company selling a performance part? If someone wants to buy that as an ornament, its nobody's business. And are they going to stop importation of such parts if you buy on eBay?
And you wonder why Trump has the support of 1/2 of America!
 
#19 ·
Everybody gets a little nervous when the official with the dB meter comes around at the track...but though rumours persist of police crackdowns I haven’t experienced any oppression by dB meter toting police while on my Guzzis or in my 4C. Stopped for ‘licence checks’ on my bike, but not for noise.

Down this way I don’t know about banning race cars but I’ve no problems going after night street racers....do it on the track fellas. But closing race circuits (and airfields) is a constant worry these days. Am I the only one who enjoys the sound of racing engines resonating through the shallow valley that leads from Eastern Creek to my home, or the sound and sight of piston engined aircraft passing overhead bound for Schofields aerodrome (now closed) or Bankstown? (The other day we had the sound of high end sports cars coming from the Creek and tonight there’s the thunder of top-fuel dragsters.) Apart from that it’s just endless, characterless housing estates as far as the eye can see (almost). At least Eastern Creek may be too large and too close to a rubbish/waste tip to be in line for a land grab by developers.... until the waste depot fills. Enjoy what we have while it lasts is what I’m doing and there’s little better way to do it than in a 4C. As I said, there’s been rumours of noise crackdowns down here but I’ve never been subject to such threats in the 4C or on my Guzzis. Frankly, unless it’s an airfield or a racing circuit, or unless you’ve gone catless and mufflerless, you’ve got little to worry about, I think. (Been wrong before and I’ll be wrong again, no doubt.)

...Wouldn’t you know it? I have to go. There’s some kids playing on the grass outside and I’m going to tell off for making too much noise.... 😉 Nah, but some people are like that. Noise to some is music to others and vice versa.
 
#27 ·
Nature does do wonderful things.
One thing to note is that "the world won't end" because of emissions or anything else we can do to it (or it can do to itself for that matter).
"Civilization" - well, the jury is still out on that one.
Won't happen today or next week, and when it does it is likely to be slow and painful, but it's almost self-assured.
I won't be around anymore to worry about it.
And I frankly doubt that even if everyone in North America put on a 200 cell cat, it would make a whole lot of difference.
 
#29 ·
I will disagree on the democrats not being evil

Open boarders- the boarder surge is up 60 % , all caveats set from last administration were terminated which is creating the surge . forcing this many people in to red state Texas will change voting demographic for good . why do you think people are fleeing democratic run states to places like Florida and south Dakota .

Raising taxes ,individual and corporate-----its coming

identity politics - what happened to all men are created equal and should be judged by the content of their character ?

Hr1 is designed to eliminate a states rights to regulate elections --all mail in ballots with no ID or way to check them under the guise of voter suppression because they say let me quote "African American individuals aren't capable of sourcing an ID ". which me and my African American family members take offense to . as should any person of color.

Every democratic state is run like garbage and inundated with crime. which as a detective i see everyday with no bail laws which effect law abiding tax paying normal citizens everyday . criminals get out and re-commit the same crimes becuse there is no recourse . shootings are up 140 % in my city as the defund the police movement makes us all unsafe.

Gas prices are going up , jobs are being lost to fictional solar powered jobs that do not exist.

3 trillion dollar so called covid bill which only 9% went to covid relief --- that's future tax money we will have to pay back as inflation will start to sore and interest rates go up to try and componsate. other moneys going to places like Pakistan at 70 million for gender studies .....(not to difficulty man and woman) , now save that money and provide beds for homeless AMERICANS .... READ THESE BILLS EDUCATE YOURSELVES ,

The democratic party is the party of hypocrisy , look at the filibusterer that they are trying to get rid of becuse they are in power , mean while each and everyone one of them can be found saying we need to protect the filibuster just a couple of years back . look on you tube you'll find it , same with voter id laws. the Democrats used the fillabuster 362 times to stop republican controlled laws from being passed .

Democrats are in for power DON'T BE A USEFUL IDIOT
 
#30 ·
I will disagree on the democrats not being evil

Open boarders- the boarder surge is up 60 % , all caveats set from last administration were terminated which is creating the surge . forcing this many people in to red state Texas will change voting demographic for good . why do you think people are fleeing democratic run states to places like Florida and south Dakota .

Raising taxes ,individual and corporate-----its coming

identity politics - what happened to all men are created equal and should be judged by the content of their character ?

Hr1 is designed to eliminate a states rights to regulate elections --all mail in ballots with no ID or way to check them under the guise of voter suppression because they say let me quote "African American individuals aren't capable of sourcing an ID ". which me and my African American family members take offense to . as should any person of color.

Every democratic state is run like garbage and inundated with crime. which as a detective i see everyday with no bail laws which effect law abiding tax paying normal citizens everyday . criminals get out and re-commit the same crimes becuse there is no recourse . shootings are up 140 % in my city as the defund the police movement makes us all unsafe.

Gas prices are going up , jobs are being lost to fictional solar powered jobs that do not exist.

3 trillion dollar so called covid bill which only 9% went to covid relief --- that's future tax money we will have to pay back as inflation will start to sore and interest rates go up to try and componsate. other moneys going to places like Pakistan at 70 million for gender studies .....(not to difficulty man and woman) , now save that money and provide beds for homeless AMERICANS .... READ THESE BILLS EDUCATE YOURSELVES ,

The democratic party is the party of hypocrisy , look at the filibusterer that they are trying to get rid of becuse they are in power , mean while each and everyone one of them can be found saying we need to protect the filibuster just a couple of years back . look on you tube you'll find it , same with voter id laws. the Democrats used the fillabuster 362 times to stop republican controlled laws from being passed .

Democrats are in for power DON'T BE A USEFUL IDIOT
Jeez, and all in eight weeks. 😁 Now, what was the question?
 
#37 ·
All us outsiders can do is sit back and watch it unfold for our brothers down south. If I was in the USA I would be making my congress rep's phones ring off the hook daily.

This is a great example showing the biggest problem with our fight for climate change are those making the changes have no qualifications.
Our house of representatives actually have had a "customer service" system for decades now to basically ignore citizen mail and calls... Privatization is also a mindset! To move amd be heard you gotta mingle and ask, not too unlike the Medieval courts actually...
 
#34 ·
OriginalForza

you are absolutely right about how to deal with this, but it should be on the radar of more people. Im not angry, but to deny this is an issue is worng. shops are being investigated and fined, manufacturers are tightening who can sell and install their products to protect themselves. The hand held tuning industry is under pressure. The end is not neigh, but without us suing our "voice" it could be the beginning of the end.

The issue being addressed here absolutly does effect our ability to modify and enjoy the cars we have now. If they uphold their interpretation, the manufactures (mostly small buisnesses) will shut down if you can not sell a modified turbo, or an open element air filter, or even a larger intercooler.

Ill stay out of the political affiliation side of this, as this started under the previous administrations, and is as much about the way our agencies opperate. It does move slow, however outlawing modification of production vehicles will have long lasting effects. The EPA interpretation on this issue could even be carried over to electric and alt fuel vehicle modification. Also, GM is trying to legally lock you out of making any changes to your vehicle, and people are not paying attention.

To me this worries me that we are normalizing allowing government agencies to interpret how they want to enforce the laws passed by congress, then they are able to change their interpretation at whim. (look at the current mess with the BATF applying the label machine gun to anything they do not like)
 
#36 ·
OriginalForza

you are absolutely right about how to deal with this, but it should be on the radar of more people. Im not angry, but to deny this is an issue is worng. shops are being investigated and fined, manufacturers are tightening who can sell and install their products to protect themselves. The hand held tuning industry is under pressure. The end is not neigh, but without us suing our "voice" it could be the beginning of the end.

The issue being addressed here absolutly does effect our ability to modify and enjoy the cars we have now. If they uphold their interpretation, the manufactures (mostly small buisnesses) will shut down if you can not sell a modified turbo, or an open element air filter, or even a larger intercooler.

Ill stay out of the political affiliation side of this, as this started under the previous administrations, and is as much about the way our agencies opperate. It does move slow, however outlawing modification of production vehicles will have long lasting effects. The EPA interpretation on this issue could even be carried over to electric and alt fuel vehicle modification. Also, GM is trying to legally lock you out of making any changes to your vehicle, and people are not paying attention.

To me this worries me that we are normalizing allowing government agencies to interpret how they want to enforce the laws passed by congress, then they are able to change their interpretation at whim. (look at the current mess with the BATF applying the label machine gun to anything they do not like)
Here we go! This is more like it... It is certainly a mess (when isn't it?) And the layers and layers of onion make us all want to cry being around such half assed implementations of ideas. Bipartisanship aside and left out for maybe another forum, the EPA and how we are "legally" able to keep our cars running is definitely not a simple one. Because of this, I'm pointing out here that many associations and businesses are boots on ground fighting the good fight, as well as politicians in all "three" major parties being reasonably "woke" to what major problems for us constituents will later hopefully punish them for letting through. Too many interested and hung on the fiscal income on keeping us enabled with multiple options when keeping pur cars running in any state of tune or "level of race spec". GM is being GM in that they are looking to eat up their own aftermarket, much like Ford and the Bronco partnering with the major distributors like an umbrella corporation type thing.

Google "AC Delco made in china lawsuit" and you'll see that some of these 100% American companies aren't as patriotic nor as "100%" as you might have still believed... Competition gets ugly on a long enough time frame.

So bringing forth what some are doing and what it may mean is one thing, but being vehement or partisan about it is what HASN'T BEEN WORKING. We gotta work together, let competition stay pure and uncriminal/ethical, and not need to agree - just push the Democratic (not the party, the Greek Form) Power in us all.
 
#35 ·
All of this doesn't sound that crazy to me. In Portugal it is illegal to modify your vehicle if it changes the characteristics of the car as it left the factory.
To do such modifications, they need to be tested by a road safety laboratory and then registered on the title of the car.
There's also only currently one or two of these road safety laboratories and they charge a small fortune to perform these tests.

To give you idea. To put bigger tyres in my wrangler, I had to get a declaration from the manufacturer that they would be safe to use, the biggest tyre FCA is willing to declare as safe is a 265/70/18.

If you want to go wider than 265, you need to pay 300 euros for the test.

I can understand the point of these rules but they are indeed extremely annoying and restrictive. But at the same time, they protect us from dangerous mods who make vehicles unsafe for the road. Where do you draw the line though?
 
#40 ·
I'm curious what the oil industry is planning with all this electrification going on.
 
#41 ·
I suspect that many OPEC nations (the ones who can see beyond the end of their own nose, and that is not being racist LOL) have prepared as the "end of oil" has long been known to be a thing. The Emirates and Saudi Arabia have tried to diversify their economies, to keep the peasants (and lesser nobles) from revolting when that occurs. Places like Venezuela will be royally screwed even more than before.

As far as companies are concerned, you raise a very good question. One would think that much of their infrastructure would be somewhat suited to Hydrogen, so you'd expect them to be in that camp. Perhaps they are just waiting to see what technology comes out on top, so they can jump in? Or raid the balance sheet in favour of income statement for as long as possible, then disappear?
 
#42 ·
If demand for your main product (oil) dramatically shrinks then your company will likely shrink in size. However, the demand for natural gas will likely remain high for a while, since it is cost competitive with solar so the focus would change to natural gas. Hopefully, Biden and his economically-illiterate advisors will let the market sort out the natural gas vs. solar competition.
 
#43 ·
I think the scientifically illiterate politicians are the issue. I see that California is trying to outlaw the sale of natural gas appliances to the point they won't allow natural gas into new constructed homes or the sale of gas appliances to existing construction...only electric power. I am retired from the gas and electrric industry where I was an electrical engineer. The cheapest form of energy is natural gas for the home. A gas dryer, stove, and heating are significantly cheaper than their electric equivalents to operate. Solar and wind power only supply a tiny fraction of energy in the US. All the rest and majority of electric generation is supplied by a combination of sources like coal, natural gas, hydro, steam, nuclear, gas from garbage and cow poop, etc.