I haven't posted yet because "Constant with LE w/o Shield - Got Refund - Bought Spider w/ Shield- So Far So Good - Knock on Wood" isn't an option.

 

You should pick a close approximate like, constant no shield and no fix (passing the problem on isn't really a fix). I can't say I blame you, I would've done the same.

You should get a second vote for the spider, no problem, with shield.

 

This is a way overdue update on the progress made addressingmy tranny issues.
First, after nearly 1500 miles of driving since repaired, thecar has run flawlessly.
Just a quick review. The issue I had was that the car woulddefault into neutral anytime I went into the manual shift, in both the N and Dmodes. Of course, it also defaulted in R mode as well. The car ran fine in bothN and D modes, as long as I stayed with auto shift. When it first started, itwould happen every thousand or so miles, and at first I was able to tap theupshift lever and it would immediately go back into the N mode, automatic, in thegear appropriate for the speed I was traveling at that moment, so I could justcontinue to drive on. By about 14,000 miles, it was at the point that it woulddefault into neutral about 200 yards after putting it into manual shift. Also,by this time, when it did default into neutral, I was no longer able to tap theupshift lever and continue to drive. Instead, I had to stop the car andre-cycle the key three times to get it to go into N mode, auto shift.
Over a period of two months, the dealership worked withDetroit, and had replaced basically everything related to the tranny, exceptthe tranny itself, and I still had the problem. At this point, the dealerpushed hard at Alfa US, and they sent a tech with a set of test equipment thatdealerships don’t have. Sort of a flight recorder that collects a lot of info.They drove it with the recorder on board for a couple of hundred miles and manydefault episodes. Then the info was sent to Italy for analysis.
A few weeks later, a new tranny was shipped, along with thewhole kit of related parts – the same parts that had recently been replaced.The tech noted that the new tranny has a different part number from the originaltranny. Everything was installed, and I have had no issues since then.
The tentative diagnosis is that the tranny housing was bentat the point where the valve bolts up to the tranny housing, causinginconsistent or inadequate pressure readings. This diagnosis is not officialyet, so please don’t assume that is your issue. In fact, defaulting intoneutral is the way the car protects itself from a variety of conditions, manyof which have nothing to do with the tranny and part of the approach to isolatethe issue on my car was to eliminate these other possibilities.
Just a shout out for the excellent dealer support, from thetechnical side right up to top management. It was their direct interest and involvementthat got the machine in Detroit fully engaged, and which also led to Italy’sinvolvement as well. Throughout the entire episode, the tech personally calledme almost daily to give me updates on what was happening, who he was talkingwith, and where we were, etc.
I strongly suspect that the tech is more knowledgeable aboutthis issue than anyone out there, and has agreed to talk to other techs dealingwith this problem. So, if you would like your tech to talk to him, email me andI will I will send you his contact data.
I’ll keep you posted if anything comes up, but right now I’mgoing to take advantage of this great year-round Texas weather and drive it!Merry Christmas to all!

 

First, after nearly 1500 miles of driving since repaired, thecar has run flawlessly.

Great news!

The tentative diagnosis is that the tranny housing was bentat the point where the valve bolts up to the tranny housing, causinginconsistent or inadequate pressure readings. This diagnosis is not officialyet, so please don’t assume that is your issue. In fact, defaulting intoneutral is the way the car protects itself from a variety of conditions, manyof which have nothing to do with the tranny and part of the approach to isolatethe issue on my car was to eliminate these other possibilities.

Good information, and wise caution to anyone else not to jump to this conclusion

Just a shout out for the excellent dealer support, from thetechnical side right up to top management. It was their direct interest and involvementthat got the machine in Detroit fully engaged, and which also led to Italy’sinvolvement as well. Throughout the entire episode, the tech personally calledme almost daily to give me updates on what was happening, who he was talkingwith, and where we were, etc.
I strongly suspect that the tech is more knowledgeable aboutthis issue than anyone out there, and has agreed to talk to other techs dealingwith this problem. So, if you would like your tech to talk to him, email me andI will I will send you his contact data.

I strongly suspect you are right, and thank you for this, from us all!

(Merry Christmas back, too - and happy new year of faultless driving, as well!)

 

Brought into dealer today, dealer performed TCM and PCM update I was told. Right now it drives well in dynamic manual. Will keep posted if anything.

Thanks again.

 

Brought into dealer today, dealer performed TCM and PCM update I was told. Right now it drives well in dynamic manual. Will keep posted if anything.

Thanks again.

just for the record, please state your model year and date of production if you have that information.

 

Just voted as well.

My LE (produced sept. 2014 as I recall) started having the transmission issues sometime in August. About 8,400 miles or so on the car.

Driving along in dynamic manual, and it would spontaneously drop to neutral and give the gear not available warning. Usually cycling the key a few times, it would let you drive off in automatic. Could drive it all day in auto mode without a problem.

Finally got it in for service. New (updated) shift actuator and a software update (thanks racer z) and so far it seems fine, shifts seem a bit crisper too, but have only driven it 120 miles or so since I got it back.

Due to impending inclement weather in the north east I may not get anymore miles on it until spring :crying:

 

Maybe interesting for owners with the same problem: a picture of what the exchange part looks like...i had no idea what to expect, but definitely not something this 'complicated' and large... The whole thing is about 50 cm long and 30cm wide!
It sits beneath the battery next to the gearbox and engine. Not so easy to get to.
The mechanic believes water entering through the air vents is most likely causing the problem. I use the car daily and it is always parked outside.
We had an unusually dry year in 2018 though. Apparently not helpful.

 

The mechanic believes water entering through the air vents is most likely causing the problem. I use the car daily and it is always parked outside.
We had an unusually dry year in 2018 though. Apparently not helpful.

Those open vents. To this day .... I mask over those vents when I wash the car. Water and electrical components probably do not mix over time.

 

2016 Spider. My car failed at 900 miles. November 2015 build date. Had and still has the shield. so.... I chose "Constant, have TCU shield, successful fix". It was NOT fixed by ADDING the shield. It already had the shield and it was "repaired" by replacing the Transmission Control Unit/Module.

 

I'm sure that IF they're using the shield for grounding part of the electrical system in the later cars, the earlier cars use another metal bit in the bay somewhere. I think "hand made in Italy" comes with a bit of variation from car to car. Making things uniform in all cars with a TSB may not be required if it doesn't make the earlier cars dangerous or unacceptably unreliable for AR.

 

TSBs aren't like a government mandated recall so I don't think they are done to all cars....only those that have a complaint. Am I correct in thinking this or are TSBs mandatory "fixes" on all cars as they are brought in for periodic service. If the TSBs become known it would be a good idea to file the appropriate "complaint" to ensure that the TSBs are done for all known areas.

 

I just answered the poll because I think after 700 miles after my transmission repair and zero issues that my car is fixed. I don't have the shield and as I stated no problems since the repair.

 

I've put over 1600 miles on mine since the fix and zero issues. I'm no longer worried about it so everything my dealer did was recommended by Alfa so at least they know about the issue and it seems they fixed it

 

Glad it worked out. Any idea of what they did....flash the computer, parts, etc.

 

I forgot an important piece of info. The code that they chased down was P1CCO-OO - "Hydraulic Pump Stuck Off". That was the extent of the information Alfa provides in their manuals.


RacerZ - my tech actually talked to yours way back when we began the hunt, and it turned out my car already had that flash update. I can't remember - did they replace your tranny, too?


Sorry for all the typos in my previous post. Did it on the fly at an airport.

 

I forgot an important piece of info. The code that they chased down was P1CCO-OO - "Hydraulic Pump Stuck Off". That was the extent of the information Alfa provides in their manuals.


RacerZ - my tech actually talked to yours way back when we began the hunt, and it turned out my car already had that flash update. I can't remember - did they replace your tranny, too?


Sorry for all the typos in my previous post. Did it on the fly at an airport.

No tranny replacement. Replaced the transmission high pressure pump and later the pump voltage regulator. Checked tons of stuff and eventually patched the TCM software. Seems to be working fine. Have many thousands of miles on it since.

edit: I need to add that I had a different PC error code.

 

If your car is a Launch Edition car it will have a LE number plate showing its place in the number of cars that are LEs. Mine for example is #498 of the 500 sold in North America. It is noted on a special number plate on top of your center console. If you don't have a LE you won't have one. Another way to find out if you car is a LE is to look for the side ducts on the front bumper near the headlights. The cars that aren't LE won't have that. If you go to my garage here on the Forum you can see a picture of my car and compare to yours for that detail. The very last run of cars for 2018 may have that duct added only in carbon fiber....it was listed as an option (pricey).

 

Right. And the only other feature that sets the LE aside from the 'regular' cars is that the interior piping is color matched to the body color. This is a hard one to spot really.

As to the TCM shield, my LE does not have one, is four years old and has lived out-of-doors for most of her life. I drive in the rain and wash her with water. I don't seem to have any issues because I don't have the shield.

 

So I voted "occasional, tcu shield installed, successful fix" because no other options made sense...

I had 1 (one) transmission failure which then I limped it to dealer, which then tried something pointless apparently since i got to the light and the error reoccurred, and then after waiting for the shield to come in, get installed for the first time, it has since (well over 10k miles since) never repeated even though my track time went up significantly for a period. I have an October 2015 build date, thus no shield came from factory, which such nearly final row of changes were implemented after the holiday season was over for 2015/2016.

Maybe add another data point like: ONE fault, no shield from factory, successful repair with shield.

 

Just thought that I would post my transmission problem and hopefully the permanent fix by the dealer.
My 2015 4C LE with 6600 miles on it would occasionally have a transmission glitch. It would shift into neutral while driving, then 1st gear would not be selectable, throw a check engine light, back to natural mode, no other drive mode selectable. P1CCO-00 fault. Shutting off, and restarting would allow me to be back on my way, and eventually the CE would clear, modes selectable, all else normal. Then problem would repeat again some miles later.
I took it into the dealer last week before my extended warranty expires, and they replaced the hydraulic shift controller (68232132AA) and module controller (68033578AA). This is my first time going to K&S Alfa Romeo and I am happy with the work they performed. They completed the repair in 1 week, and were sure to use the window shade as asked them to do.

 

Just thought that I would post my transmission problem and hopefully the permanent fix by the dealer.
My 2015 4C LE with 6600 miles on it would occasionally have a transmission glitch. It would shift into neutral while driving, then 1st gear would not be selectable, throw a check engine light, back to natural mode, no other drive mode selectable. P1CCO-00 fault. Shutting off, and restarting would allow me to be back on my way, and eventually the CE would clear, modes selectable, all else normal. Then problem would repeat again some miles later.
I took it into the dealer last week before my extended warranty expires, and they replaced the hydraulic shift controller (68232132AA) and module controller (6803357AA). This is my first time going to K&S Alfa Romeo and I am happy with the work they performed. They completed the repair in 1 week, and were sure to use the window shade as asked them to do.

hopefully that solves the issue....that seems to be the part that can cause issues mostly on the oldest 4Cs. I had the same issue under warranty with my 2015 LE. At the time ALFA corporate decided to not fiddle with finding the cause under warranty so opted to replace the entire trans of any cars that had an issue under warranty....so I got a new trans which has been trouble free since than. The neat part is that the new trans would have the new stronger 3rd gear too. Some early trans had failures of the 3rd gear.

 

Some comments from the previous thread on this:
http://4c-forums.com/16-engine-technical/33450-transmission-poll-discussion.html

#7 for me although I have a new TCM waiting for me to be installed at Service next week.
We won't know if my TCM has been corrupted (from water or whatever else) until they take it out and analyze it.

#90 is an early LE without the shield. The internal wires and the connections to the plug are exposed for all to see.
I tried Docron's tie wrap test and found that the engine compartment was somewhat protected by an internal plastic(?) lining applied to the bodywork that serves a barrier to the entry of water.
(I am almost afraid to type this) We have experienced no transmission problems.

I think that a solution such as the fix applied by Docron would be more effective in protecting the plug from moisture than the shield.

9. NO problem
NO TCU shield
13k miles
received July 2015
built February 2015
SE coupe

 

More from previous thread (page 2)

#90 is an early LE without the shield. The internal wires and the connections to the plug are exposed for all to see.
I tried Docron's tie wrap test and found that the engine compartment was somewhat protected by an internal plastic(?) lining applied to the bodywork that serves a barrier to the entry of water.
(I am almost afraid to type this) We have experienced no transmission problems.

I think that a solution such as the fix applied by Docron would be more effective in protecting the plug from moisture than the shield.

Mine is an LE car. I am problem #5. Dealer has replaced tranny pump, accumulator and regulator, and software patch. Now looking at DNA selector switch and paddle shifters.

#6 - problem started as a fault that locked out manual mode and defaulted to natural. Then got worse to the point the car would fault and shift uncommanded into neutral whilst driving.

Problem occurred ~5,000km and the dealer eventually replaced the transmission and battery.
I don't have the TCM shield yet but have since shielded it with some plastic sheet and zip ties.

No shield.
Stock car.

Problem went from occasional to consistent given enough time. Eventually fixed.

I like the additional criteria to include.
Dynamic, Manual always.
Car lives out-of-doors.
Washed with water once a month.
Daily driver.
15,000 miles (maybe) when problems started.
18,000 miles when fixed.

Driving styles (for me):
Daily city.
Spirited twisties.
Tracked once or twice.

I always keep my foot on the brake pedal when stopped, or, I press the N button.
ALWAYS.

No shield, no problems. 50,000km

 

From Page 3 of prior discussion:

After having the hydraulic pump and smart drive module replaced (two separate service events), our car has faulted again. Same as before, codes p1cc0-00 and b1067-67. The dealer is resetting the codes but I will drive it 500 miles tomorrow for relocation. I will be using automatic mode and crossing my fingers.

I believe mine would be a #5.

It doesn't appear that I have this metal shelf. Not sure where it is. In front of the battery towards to drivers seat or next to the battery on the left? Either way there isn't a metal shelf. The tranny problem has happened 2 times in the last 2 times I've driven the vehicle. I'm currently waiting for the tow truck to bring it to the dealer. I will update all results etc. once I have more info.

 

Page 4 and 5 comments:

2016 4C Spider. November 2015 Build Date. Shield on TCU (Transmission Control Module). Failed at 900 miles. Only ran in 'Limp Mode' (Natural / Automatic). Happened several days after the one and only time I washed it. There have always been water spots on the shield, but a noticable amount of water made it into the engine compartment when I did wash it. Dealer, Orange Coast Fiat in Costa Mesa where I purchased it replaced the TCU after going back and forth with the Technicians / Engineering Team in Michigan. Took about a week to get the OK from the Alfa Team and almost another week for the part to be shipped. Car now has 1600 miles, no issues since. The dealer technician did review all of the issues with SportCoupe's and RacerZ's. I am friends with both and my technician was able to pull both files. This took place after RacerZ's "Software Patch" but before the latest issue with SportCoupe's.

Just for the records, i have the feedback of about 10 4c in Italy that are being regularly tracked (meaning at least once a month, more often twice a month), at least 3/4 of them quite pushed too, and about other 10 that running on road only. We had not transmission issues on the road ones, some (3/4) of the most tracked had some rare issue (rare meaning less than once a year of use) of gearbox switching to degraded mode, with self recovery after some minutes of pause. This has happened regardless of ambient temperature and more often on low temperature than high. I will try to pay more attention but I'm feeling that on most cases the weather conditions were damp/wet. O had it just once, on the last session at the Red Bull ring, wet. It was the last session of the day (so after a total of 3 hours), in the last minutes of a 45 min, no pause session. The car recovered alone after 2 minutes of cool down.

 

I think that I transferred all of the comments describing failures, fixes, etc.

Any information you would care to post to help describe what you were experiencing (including error codes and their meanings) would be helpful.

We do have a list of known codes in the "Technical Reference and DIY" sticky thread in the Engine and Technical section of the forum. I'll try to keep adding to this list as more are discovered/defined.

Build date, whether your car is a coupe or spider, LE or SE, might also be good information to post below.

Thanks for your contributions!

 

I voted number 6.

I have an early LE without shield.
About 15,000 miles when problems started. Several failed attempts, but eventually a fix.
Symptoms were sporadic, but eventually became consistent making diagnostic easier.
Took about 3000 miles of daily driving before a fix was possible.
That was about 4000 miles ago without incident since.

As mentioned in several other threads, my fix was a software patch. Quite a few members have PMed me asking how to get this patch. I've always responded favorably, but have never heard if they received my secret patch of not, or, if they ever had favorable results by any method.

 

My car is currently in the shop for this problem. I have 1113 miles in it and should have more info from the dealer tomorrow. When I spoke with the service advisor he said another car just left yesterday with the same problem. Should I wait to get my car back and test it for a week or so before answering the poll?

 

My car is currently in the shop for this problem. I have 1113 miles in it and should have more info from the dealer tomorrow. When I spoke with the service advisor he said another car just left yesterday with the same problem. Should I wait to get my car back and test it for a week or so before answering the poll?

PistolPete, I'd suggest you give it a good long test drive before voting.
That's just based on some others' experiences here.
Hoping you can call it "fixed". Fingers crossed for you.

Whether it's been fixed or not isn't really the point of this thread, is it? The fact that the individual car has experienced transmission problems is more to the point, correct?

 

Definitely drive for a while to make sure. Our car has now been released as "fixed" twice but faulted after that.

 

Absolutely. My experience is that two separate 100 mile drives is not the same as one 200 mile drive. The real test is a nice long drive (with or without) on a twisty road with lots of shifting. Manual mode only. Automatic mode seems to be immune to the problems.

 

If the goal is to see if the shield has a practical function, then what the fix was and how well it worked is a topic for a different survey. We are trying to find out if owners with cars that have no shield should go get a shield or not. Seeing the rear quarter panel needs to come off to put a shield in, it would be nice to know if there is a benefit to the shield other than providing a mounting spot for an electric pencil sharpener.

 

My point is, not all transmission problems may have the same origin.
IF somebody with a shield got their issue fixed by replacing a push-button on the console, but most people's without a shield don't get fixed without a TCU & wiring harness replacement, that also tells us something.
I believe that the "fixed" options (along with any description people add) might prune some of the outliers from the data set.

Otherwise, we might be researching the equivalent of whether right-handed people have more left knee pain than southpaws, without even realizing it!

 

The problem with a rather complex survey is the delay in getting results in could lower reply rates as people forget about it (or get confused about which category they should go into).

 

What is the distinction between occasional and consistent? Does consistent require less than a particular number of miles or shifts before the problem arises?

 

Good question.

My thought is that "occasional" would suggest that you've had a transmission error or two, but not with any regular frequency. "Hmmm, I wonder what just happened. I must mention that to the dealer on my next service".
"Consistent" means that it happens regularly enough that you are worried about it. Probably (but not necessarily) reproducible for the mechanic on a test drive. You probably have or shortly will involve the service department. It is affecting your trust/enjoyment of the car.

Certainly, "occasional" might be a precursor to "consistent" problems.

I based this on reading earlier reports/threads where some people have chimed in that they "had that happen once", while others have obviously experienced far more severe issues.
It was an attempt to dig deeper into the extent of the problem. Maybe foolishly.