[Malibu4c]

Just to bring this up in the active posts so people don't forget to vote so we can measure the real extent of the gear box problem issue.

I find it hard to believe 16% of the cars (5/31) have had the issue seeing the poor response (that would be a bit of an epidemic). So the vast majority are probably uncounted no problem cars whose owners haven't bothered to vote or to look into their car's engine compartment). It would be nice to know the real number.

 

[DrPyro2k]

Have about 4k in miles, i have had not had any issues and have the shield. (#10). But I park in a garage, and normally do not drive the car if it rains, but have been caught at work a few times during torrential rains.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Malibu4c]

Yeah, mine also have an easy life. If we get enough entries (a few hundred would be good), the +shield and -shield groups should have a roughly equal distribution of car with an easy life.

 

[4Canada]

Just to bring this up in the active posts so people don't forget to vote so we can measure the real extent of the gear box problem issue.

I find it hard to believe 16% of the cars (5/31) have had the issue seeing the poor response (that would be a bit of an epidemic). So the vast majority are probably uncounted no problem cars whose owners haven't bothered to vote or to look into their car's engine compartment). It would be nice to know the real number.

If we get enough entries (a few hundred would be good), the +shield and -shield groups should have a roughly equal distribution of car with an easy life.

We have 2700 members, of which a couple hundred attend the site once a week or more.
The thread has been viewed over 800 times, but I have no idea how many are repeat visits, web crawlers, or guests visiting the page perhaps researching a purchase.
Of course, guests cannot vote.
My guess would be that very few members who have a problem and have seen the thread, will not have voted.
Many who do not have the issue won't have even opened the topic, or if they did, perhaps not cared enough to vote.
In that respect, we will likely never have a representation of the relative magnitude of the issue.
We cannot even say if the problems experienced are all the same origin. In fact, they are almost certainly not, based on what a few of the fixes have been.

The results might be somewhat informative, but are pretty far from scientific. Sadly, I don't see that changing over time.
What it may still show us in the long run is whether or not the "with shield" group experiences a similar rate of failure to those without the shield.
And I guess that's what you really wanted to see in the first place.

 

[PistolPete]

I haven't voted yet but I had the problem and had the fix. That said, I've only put about 220 miles on it since the fix was completed so I think I need to wait longer before voting.

 

[Racer Z]

I'm one of those repeat visitors. Everytime a new post is made, I view it. Usually there's been three or four posts made by then, but sometimes it's only one.

I view the threads that have been updated since my last visit to the forum. I remember enough of the overall conversations that I only need to read the 'new' posts. But as 4Canada said, sometimes specific details need to be reread for certain reasons.

 

[Barth Vader]

I haven't posted yet because "Constant with LE w/o Shield - Got Refund - Bought Spider w/ Shield- So Far So Good - Knock on Wood" isn't an option.

 

[Malibu4c]

Someone with an endoscope camera should look under the factory installed shield to see if there is any evidence of wiring attached under. Having never done any otf this before, maybe this is a crazy suggestion. If not, you can get an endoscope that fits an android phone for ~$20. If there are wires under the shield, it could suggest it's being used as a ground in that car (as well as other +shield cars). If that is the case, buying the shield to put it on a -shield car wouldn't make sense.

I wonder if Doc figured out where his TCM is grounded. Naturally, I'm assuming the Alfa Romeo used the few metal parts in the 4c to ground the electrical system....I don't know if that's the case. I'm not a mechanic or a do it yourself guy like Doc, I "call the guy" when something goes wrong....that's what people do when they're allergic to manual labor.

 

[Malibu4c]

I haven't posted yet because "Constant with LE w/o Shield - Got Refund - Bought Spider w/ Shield- So Far So Good - Knock on Wood" isn't an option.

You should pick a close approximate like, constant no shield and no fix (passing the problem on isn't really a fix). I can't say I blame you, I would've done the same.

You should get a second vote for the spider, no problem, with shield.

 

[Racer Z]

Someone with an endoscope camera should look under the factory installed shield to see if there is any evidence of wiring attached under. Having never done any otf this before, maybe this is a crazy suggestion. If not, you can get an endoscope that fits an android phone for ~$20. If there are wires under the shield, it could suggest it's being used as a ground in that car (as well as other +shield cars). If that is the case, buying the shield to put it on a -shield car wouldn't make sense.

I wonder if Doc figured out where his TCM is grounded. Naturally, I'm assuming the Alfa Romeo used the few metal parts in the 4c to ground the electrical system....I don't know if that's the case. I'm not a mechanic or a do it yourself guy like Doc, I "call the guy" when something goes wrong....that's what people do when they're allergic to manual labor.

I bet Doc has an end-scope-thingy. Oops, Doc doesn't have a shield.

These types of units don't rely on a ground connection to or through the case. They get their ground through the wire connection and the wiring harness. The only reason the case needs to be grounded is so it can offer an electronic interference shield.

We still don't know what ARs intention is with 'the shield'.
Is it there to flow water away?
Is it there to act as an electronic shield? If so, it won't function if it's not thoroughly grounded.
Or is there another use that we haven't thought of?

If 'the shield' was really that important, AR would have it listed as a TSB and we'd all have our cars in for service. But it's being treated as an afterthought of no importance. Then again, if it's of no importance, why is AR including it on the later cars? Has anybody found Mario's pencil yet?

 

[4Canada]

If 'the shield' was really that important, AR would have it listed as a TSB and we'd all have our cars in for service. But it's being treated as an afterthought of no importance. Then again, if it's of no importance, why is AR including it on the later cars? Has anybody found Mario's pencil yet?

Somebody, take an endoscope and look for it under the shield!

I was going through the same reasoning, Racer Z. But we're applying logic to an Alfa decision. no wonder my head hurts.

 

[Malibu4c]

I'm sure that IF they're using the shield for grounding part of the electrical system in the later cars, the earlier cars use another metal bit in the bay somewhere. I think "hand made in Italy" comes with a bit of variation from car to car. Making things uniform in all cars with a TSB may not be required if it doesn't make the earlier cars dangerous or unacceptably unreliable for AR.

 

[RKBerta]

I'm sure that IF they're using the shield for grounding part of the electrical system in the later cars, the earlier cars use another metal bit in the bay somewhere. I think "hand made in Italy" comes with a bit of variation from car to car. Making things uniform in all cars with a TSB may not be required if it doesn't make the earlier cars dangerous or unacceptably unreliable for AR.

TSBs aren't like a government mandated recall so I don't think they are done to all cars....only those that have a complaint. Am I correct in thinking this or are TSBs mandatory "fixes" on all cars as they are brought in for periodic service. If the TSBs become known it would be a good idea to file the appropriate "complaint" to ensure that the TSBs are done for all known areas.

 

[Racer Z]

I'm sure that IF they're using the shield for grounding part of the electrical system in the later cars, the earlier cars use another metal bit in the bay somewhere. I think "hand made in Italy" comes with a bit of variation from car to car. Making things uniform in all cars with a TSB may not be required if it doesn't make the earlier cars dangerous or unacceptably unreliable for AR.

TSBs aren't like a government mandated recall so I don't think they are done to all cars....only those that have a complaint. Am I correct in thinking this or are TSBs mandatory "fixes" on all cars as they are brought in for periodic service. If the TSBs become known it would be a good idea to file the appropriate "complaint" to ensure that the TSBs are done for all known areas.

Right. TSBs are treated as non-important. They wait for an owner complaint or the car to come in for some other service. Then any TSBs are silently issued. If an owner wants a TSB done without 'just cause', they need to know about it with enough detail to request it.

 

[heelntoe]

Observation about modern TSBs for software updates - as cars age and the manufacturer turns its back on the older models there's going to be an aftermarket for updates like these.

 

[Malibu4c]

That would be the purpose of this poll. To get data so owners that haven't had an issue yet, can take the data to their local AR dealer and request a fix. So far, it seems the shield is irrelevant....whatever its function may be. The rate of TCM issues seems high but since we only have 39 responses, this isn't high enough to go to the dealership, and we don't know what to ask for to prevent the problem.

 

[Racer Z]

39 responses.
6 reported problems.
1.5% failure rate.

That seems like a high percentage, but it's a very low response. Can we assume that everyone (who is a forum member) with an issue has responded? Can we assume that the several thousand who didn't respond have never experienced a transmission issue?

If it's 6 out of 2,000, that's not so bad. Would be nice if it was 0 of 1,000,000 but...

Companies like Toyota and Porsche, who sell hundreds of thousands every year. What are their actual failure rates? We know that every single vehicle manufacturer does have recalls and TSBs.

 

[4Canada]

39 responses.
6 reported problems.
1.5% failure rate.

That seems like a high percentage, but it's a very low response. Can we assume that everyone (who is a forum member) with an issue has responded? Can we assume that the several thousand who didn't respond have never experienced a transmission issue?

If it's 6 out of 2,000, that's not so bad. Would be nice if it was 0 of 1,000,000 but...

Companies like Toyota and Porsche, who sell hundreds of thousands every year. What are their actual failure rates? We know that every single vehicle manufacturer does have recalls and TSBs.

Yer decimal place is misplaced.
But the survey is not statistically valid.

 

[PistolPete]

I just answered the poll because I think after 700 miles after my transmission repair and zero issues that my car is fixed. I don't have the shield and as I stated no problems since the repair.

 

[Malibu4c]

Still at 16% for transmission problems, and little in the way of a difference between the shield vs no shield groups (numbers are way too low to make any definitive conclusions).

I rented a 4C coupe that didn't have a shield, drove it in Los Angeles traffic (lots of stop and go on the way from and to LAX....picked it up at LAX), and had no transmission issues in the ~200 miles I traveled in the car over the week end. This car sees many different drivers, and had 10038 miles on the odometer.