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Discussion starter · #121 ·
I had my alignment checked yesterday at Apex alignment in Miami. Ive used them before because they are reasonable, careful and he races cars.

My car came with toe OUT on the front and more so on the right than the left (FL1/32 and 1/8). Camber was .9 on the front and even side to side.
Rear toe was and also off from side to side (L 1/8 and R 5/32). Cambers were nice and even with .9 front and 2 in the rear. Caster was only 2.2 degrees.

He set the front toe to zero and the rears to 5/32 on each side. My car has improved, it follows ruts less and I can drive with one hand and drink a soda if Im careful. I feel like the car actually has MORE steering now too.

I am considering Jamie blocks in order to get more caster as most cars have 3 or 4 degrees more( Then I can drink coffee without fear). Does anyone know how much caster I will end up with after the blocks? I also wonder if 5/32 toe in is too much for the rear because it doesn't feel right?
On the rear, is it set to 'toe-in' or 'toe-out'?
5/32 + 5/32 = 10/32 = 5/16 ( just over 1/4 )
 
I am considering Jamie blocks in order to get more caster as most cars have 3 or 4 degrees more( Then I can drink coffee without fear). Does anyone know how much caster I will end up with after the blocks? I also wonder if 5/32 toe in is too much for the rear because it doesn't feel right?
Just over 4°, a little less with the RACE blocks.
 
Discussion starter · #128 ·
Are there just one thickness of front wheel camber adjustment plates (shims)?
How thick?
Just the one size. Thickness is similar to an American dime.
 
Got a few questions for you guys as I'm preparing for a full alignment...

On a recent "high speed" drive on a local road I know very well, I noticed that once I got up in speed the car became very shifty. Yes, my car tramlines a bit (only really bothered me for the first hundred miles), and has what I call "bump steer" as camber changes it wants to change direction a bit.


I am hoping that installing Jamie's Race Blocks, and alignment will improve the high speed stability and minimize the bump steer some. The race blocks will take care of castor and camber, but the toe discussion has me confused a bit.

My understanding is that a rear-wheel drive vehicle "pushes" the front axle's tires as they roll along the road. Tire rolling resistance causes a little drag resulting in rearward movement of the suspension arms against their bushings. Because of this, most rear-wheel drive vehicles use some toe-in to compensate for the movement, enabling the tires to run parallel to each other at speed. Some additional toe-in from the optimal toe-in for parallel operation at speed will increase stability, but decrease agility. Less toe-in from the optimal toe-in for parallel operation at speed will increase agility, but decrease stability.

However, most of the discussion on this thread says that we want "toe-out" on the front axle for rear wheel drive cars. Wouldn't this significantly increase agility and tramlining? Is Jamie's recommendation of "Toe-In", just adjusting the car to a more traditional configuration?

So my questions...

1) What is the torque spec for the suspension bolts (where the spacers go)?
2) The suggested 2mm toe-in, is this on each wheel?
3) Is that 2mm, measured on the rim of the tire? What if i change rim sizes? I'm going from the 18/19 configuration to 17/18?

Thanks...
 
Zero Toe at the front and Toe In on the rear is what we run. You should NEVER run Toe Out on the rear of a mid-engine car - unless you are a drifter. :grin2:

A bit of Toe In at the front will stabilize the car but will make it slower at turn-in.
 
1) What is the torque spec for the suspension bolts (where the spacers go)?
2) The suggested 2mm toe-in, is this on each wheel?
3) Is that 2mm, measured on the rim of the tire? What if i change rim sizes? I'm going from the 18/19 configuration to 17/18?
1) 55 Nm +45°
2) No, total
3) Doesn't really matter, the difference will be approx 0.1 mm of toe.
 
Zero Toe at the front and Toe In on the rear is what we run. You should NEVER run Toe In on the rear of a mid-engine car - unless you are a drifter. :grin2:

A bit of Toe In at the front will stabilize the car but will make it slower at turn-in.
Is there a typo there? You say you run toe in on the rear then say you should never do that?

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I just installed Jamie's Race Block and took it for a drive last night. I also put on the Trofeo R's to break them in. I'm of very mixed opinion, I think the steering is now even lighter and more sensitive than before, i would call it touchy. Hard acceleration made the car became even more touchy. Frankly, It kind of scared me some, definitely didn't inspire confidence! I also feel that that the ride is even more harsh.... To others that have installed the Race Blocks, what is your opinions? How did it change your driving feel?

Now, I have NOT aligned the car yet, so I assume it still has the factory toe-out setting. I will set the toe, to 2mm total toe-in when I take the car in for service tomorrow. Second, I'll switch back to OEM wheels, to see if the feel is more due to fresh Trofeo R tires, not suspension changes.

Thanks...
-DrPyro
 
Discussion starter · #138 ·
I just installed Jamie's Race Block and took it for a drive last night. I also put on the Trofeo R's to break them in. I'm of very mixed opinion, I think the steering is now even lighter and more sensitive than before, i would call it touchy. Hard acceleration made the car became even more touchy. Frankly, It kind of scared me some, definitely didn't inspire confidence! I also feel that that the ride is even more harsh.... To others that have installed the Race Blocks, what is your opinions? How did it change your driving feel?

Now, I have NOT aligned the car yet, so I assume it still has the factory toe-out setting. I will set the toe, to 2mm total toe-in when I take the car in for service tomorrow. Second, I'll switch back to OEM wheels, to see if the feel is more due to fresh Trofeo R tires, not suspension changes.

Thanks...
-DrPyro
Until you reset the toe, you can't judge it. Also, different tires feel different. Set the toe and put the other tires back on. Oh, and check the tire pressures.
 
I just installed Jamie's Race Block and took it for a drive last night. I also put on the Trofeo R's to break them in. I'm of very mixed opinion, I think the steering is now even lighter and more sensitive than before, i would call it touchy. Hard acceleration made the car became even more touchy. Frankly, It kind of scared me some, definitely didn't inspire confidence! I also feel that that the ride is even more harsh.... To others that have installed the Race Blocks, what is your opinions? How did it change your driving feel?

Now, I have NOT aligned the car yet, so I assume it still has the factory toe-out setting. I will set the toe, to 2mm total toe-in when I take the car in for service tomorrow. Second, I'll switch back to OEM wheels, to see if the feel is more due to fresh Trofeo R tires, not suspension changes.

Thanks...
-DrPyro

Don't pass judgement until you get the car aligned. Just adding the blocks and then putting the car on the alignment rack put the toe so out of whack. Even adjusting the rear toe changed the front toe. You need to look at all 4 wheels and do a proper alignment.

As for the tires, I'd try the car with the tires you know first - assuming they haven't been unevenly worn due to a bad alignment. Many Rs can feel pretty squirrelly until the mold release is worn off and you've broken them in a bit.
 
To others that have installed the Race Blocks, what is your opinions? How did it change your driving feel?
Actually the opposite of your experience. You can't take for granted that you had correct factory settings from the beginning, probably not.

If you installed the blocks without adjusting the toe at all - then you probably have toe out! Shorten each side by 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn, and get a proper alignment.
 
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