Have the VIN and looked up the Carfax. Identified as TX buyback title and also had the info about "check engine light and transmission issues" in the service information. Sounds a lot like what you've struggled with Racer. It then went from the original dealer back to FCA and was eventually auctioned to another FCA dealer.

The warranty question is the first thing I'll ask when I talk to the dealer. I would expect the remainder of the manufacturer's warranty. But maybe not in this case?

 

Have the VIN and looked up the Carfax. Identified as TX buyback title and also had the info about "check engine light and transmission issues" in the service information. Sounds a lot like what you've struggled with Racer. It then went from the original dealer back to FCA and was eventually auctioned to another FCA dealer.

The warranty question is the first thing I'll ask when I talk to the dealer. I would expect the remainder of the manufacturer's warranty. But maybe not in this case?

The warranty would remain on the car. But the car will be branded for life and may even have a branded title depending on what state the car is sold in. Also in a lot of cases you can not get an extended warranty on a buy back car. There are many cars that are bought back and then end up on the auction block everyday. Some cars are just one of those cars, it doesn't mean that it is not a good buy and you wont have many years of happy motoring with it. I just means it started life a little troublesome.

 

Thanks guys. Clarifies/solidifies my thinking. Looking at the dates on the Carfax, it was bought back well before they figured out the "Racer Z" software patch (dude, you suffered . . . take credit). Also, it was sold and repurchased in TX, and was indeed "branded" according to state law (clearly stated on the Carfax). I've got good ammunition, let's see if they can make it worth it to me.

My only remaining question . . . Racer Z, your software fix still holding up?

I wish these cars weren't so darn seductive. I can't get any work done.

 

My secret patch seems to be working fine still. I've got 23,000 miles on the car now, about 5,000 with the patch if I remember correctly. I have no idea when or if it will become public.

Cupshot and 4Canada bring up some good points.

Keep in mind that we don't know any real details about the problem or the fix for this car. We don't know the details behind the buyback. Could be as simple as the new owner was frustrated that his new car got stuck on the side of the road, for the third time this month. With the shaking their heads exclaiming that they were clueless and FCA wasn't helping.

Clearly you need more details before you make a decision.

 

Latest update is, that oil had leaked into the clutches from a bad gasket, so they are going to be replaced. New clutches are on the way, and hopefully all will be good again. I don't have more details, but plan on taking a look at the car next week.

But since winter is slowly arriving here, I will not get to drive it much until next spring...

So tomorrow I will go to my garage and try to get the 164 Q4 ready for winter driving

 

That's not so bad, which is a good thing. And a solution can be applied soon.

 

Yesterday I finally picked up my 4C again - the clutches are replaced and they also found out that the aircon condensor was leaking (not visible with regular UV trace material), so that is replaced as well.

I drove the car to the garage for winter storage (short pleasure...) and everything worked fine. So now I am looking forward to spring!!

The mechanic told me that the error code was regarding one of the clutches (fits with it being able to shift between 2, 4 & 6) and when test driving it, they found that it was slipping. I mentioned previously, it was oil leaking from a gasket, I guess in my case it was a good thing that I have driven the car this much, so this happened under warranty...

Service from the workshop has been good and they listened to my observations as well, so can't complain about the work done

 

Glad that's over. To bad you can't take it out for a real test drive yet.

 

Hey RacerZ.... I noticed a wooden ramp from your driveway. It looks just like mine! I guess you had issues with the nose bottoming out , just like I did

 

Yup.

Google maps or the short article I poster on the forum with pictures?

Hmm, or you did a drive-by?

 

LOL .... no drive by. I noticed it in one of your pics. First time backing out of my driveway ..... SCRATCH!! Thankfully you can't see it, it's underneath the nose. So I built a couple of small ramps. Just got my 4C Spider last week. A 2015 leftover. 100 miles. These transmission posts are worrisome. I need to take it in for a faulty temp control knob. Should I demand that software update? Or any other changes?

 

The TSB's are there for a reason. In your case, think of it as preventative maintenance. For some of us, it was the fix after being stranded on the side of the road. Any and all TSB's became part of the new car build.

Glad you built some ramps. In my case, I didn't think too much of it. I didn't like that fact that my new car was scraped, but I couldn't undo that. I didn't see much reason to build a ramp after that. Three months later (my 4C is a daily driver), I crashed and had to replace the fascia. I had worn a hole in the plastic fascia (bumper). So I built the ramp while the car was waiting (three months) on parts.

 

Racer Z is a savage!!! ;-D

 

He was just building in an extra intake. More cooling.
And doing it very, very slowly.

 

all the vents!
Tyson

 

I didn't know the hole was there until after the fascia...

Oh, the hole in the facia resulted in a loss of downforce thus your adventure into the hay bales. You are, at last, absolved.

 

Cut

 

I feel so lucky to join this club, not. :grin2: I have read through this post and several others so far today. I was getting ready to go run COTA today (after getting rained out last month) and of course after starting up the vehicle and trying to exit the garage I was greeted with the full Christmas Light package along with all the warning messages scrolling across the display. The one difference I have experienced compared to others unless I missed it, is right after I placed the car into reverse, there was a loud pop from the lower rear driver's side, which has never happened and then it was arcade city.

I have tried all the various steps in these threads ranging from cleaning the terminals to a new battery. I checked under the car and no leaks and no weird sounds while idling or backing out of the garage. I tried a couple of negative ground disconnects to clear the codes and after a clean start, the car idles fine, nothing unusual, goes right into reverse, and once I get about two feet out of the garage then arcade city so I shift into first and back in. After installing a new battery, the car actually went into arcade mode once I blipped the throttle without even putting it in gear. I was brave and drove around the block and it is stuck in natural mode and acceleration is slightly off, but the transmission does shift gears. So weird.

So I am making the assumption this is a tow event to the dealer now unless there are any other recommendations. And up until this morning, the car has been dead on perfect, even getting gas last night and going out for dinner, there was not a hint of an issue.

 

The pop sound is kind of scary. The red gear with ! indicates transmission trouble. Since you could not clear it doing everything you did, yes, get her towed into the dealer.

 

It looks like it has a stored error (the red '!'), so time to have error codes read. I don't know how far your dealer is from you, but I managed to drive 20km when I had clutch problems in mine, without issues.

 

Of course if you are in doubt, have it towed, no question about it!

I was referring to the part that you actually drove it around the block after all of this, without further issues.

 

If Alfa fails, once again, with this latest stable of models, the fault will rest solely on the shoulders of it's overwhelmingly poor dealership network and its approach to customer "care." (There are dealerships that are the exception to this rule, but they are in the minority).

Former Porsche, Audi and BMW owners, will NOT put up with this sort of nonsense. Especially when they compare it to their past treatment at those other high end dealerships. Stelvio and Giulia owners will not be nearly as patient as crazy/enthusiastic/loyal/masochistic/smitten/gear-head, 4C owners.

 

Given some of the horror stories about the damage done through an improper tow, I'd almost rather take my chances driving it. Make absolutely positively sure they send the right truck, then film the entire loading process.

 

Yes, I had the towing company, Alfa Customer Care and the service technician all on a conference call to make sure the right vehicle and driver is available. I already took detailed pictures of the car tonight and will film the loading tomorrow. I would rather take this chance than have the car fail on the way to the dealership and be stuck with whoever they send and then have to fight any abuse claims as I drove the car with it basically telling me not to do it.

 

Well, the dealer is telling me the car is throwing an internal Mass Air Sensor fault code plus a few more that they will not discuss without payment since they will not proceed under warranty since I replaced the intercooler hoses. They are claiming the intercooler hoses have created the faults and since they are aftermarket, my warranty will be voided. WTH.

 

After a heated discussion, they will bring in an Alfa Romeo engineer to make a final determination if the problem with the mass air sensor is caused by the "non-factory" intercooler hoses (no way affects the MAS) and a replacement air filter (Mahle, but not dealer installed). If so, that section of the engine warranty will be voided (and off to court we go). In the meantime, they were nice enough to complete a full diagnostic test before the engineer arrives, date unknown. This is like the twilight zone. :wink2:

That totally sucks. To bad it's to late to put the stock parts back on and go to another dealer.

You can say to them, "Why should I recommend your dealer, or Alfa Romeo to the next person who asks me how I like my Alfa?"
"It's a great car to drive, when it drives, but it's in the shop more than on the road and the dealer can't or won't fix it."

The reality is that not all dealers would void the warranty because of the aftermarket parts. It would depend on how related the parts are to the problem. It's one thing if dirt gets past the non-stock filter and damages the engine internals, after taking the engine apart. It's quite another thing to give it a blanket void because of a visual glance.

But, they did give you a clue. "(Mahle, but not dealer installed)" Had you have paid them for the labor to install the intercooler hoses, then they'd honor the warranty. Somehow, you need to use this statement to your advantage.

 

Great customer retention strategy!

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Great customer retention strategy!

After a heated discussion, they will bring in an Alfa Romeo engineer to make a final determination if the problem with the mass air sensor is caused by the "non-factory" intercooler hoses (no way affects the MAS) and a replacement air filter (Mahle, but not dealer installed). If so, that section of the engine warranty will be voided (and off to court we go). In the meantime, they were nice enough to complete a full diagnostic test before the engineer arrives, date unknown. This is like the twilight zone. :wink2:

 

Just a quick update. After another discussion with the dealership and talking it out calmly (which was mostly me after we got past the warranty flag), we agreed to work together on a full diagnostic routine. I agreed to pay a small not to exceed fee in case the fault was with the non-factory hoses or air filter and they would not red-flag the car based on further discussions about the hoses and filter with AR.

Turns out the primary intercooler hose had a blown seam issue, a bad clamp and an iffy negative battery terminal. The dealer replaced all the parts plus reset the ECU and only charged me half of the original diagnostic fee, waived the hose/clamp cost and the vehicle is clear now on the warranty. I am impressed to say the least and it was an unexpected turn of events today. I think the different approach is what worked although it took a while to get there. And now I know what to do before any future dealer visits. ;-)

 

I'm happy to hear this and glad you got your car fixed. It all seems smooth now, but was pretty ugly (jumbo shrimp -- pretty & ugly) there for a while.

 

I will say, after reading this and looking up your past posts, you are lucky that they did not void your warranty and/or make you pay 100% for these repairs.

This was self induced. From this thread
http://4c-forums.com/16-engine-technical/55441-eurocompulsion-ecu-not-2.html

I have the Biesse tune from Alfa9.

It's a known fact that the tuned 4C's are blowing out the IC Pipes. There is a thread detailing this.

As such, I think the Alfa bashing in this thread is not justified.
People need to take responsibility for their actions.

 

People need to take responsibility for their actions.

I told the dealer I had nothing to hide, what was on the car at the time of the fault and it is not tuned. I am at stock after seeing issues with other 4Cs on the track here. The only mods are the air filter, hoses, sway bars and jamie's blocks. As for it being self induced, this is a Samco hose/clamp failure plus to compound the issue, the negative battery terminal cable was frayed a bit. I take full responsibility for anything I have done to the car that directly affects the performance of that component. But, this was a case of we see a non-factory part, your warranty is flagged without any further discussion. And that is not acceptable, there needs to be a discussion, one that is logical about what is or is not affecting the vehicle.

We came to an amicable agreement after finally having that discussion, as I stated I am completely satisfied with the outcome and impressed by what the dealer's response was today. I know what the dealer will or will not do now and will go back to all stock on the hoses and filter (although Mahle is the OEM manufacturer). As for the blocks and sway bars, they cured the suspension and steering issues for the most part, so I am sticking with those and the AR engineer did not have an issue with them, nor did he with the filter and hoses as a side note. But, the part that failed was aftermarket and that is on me. The dealer due to past business and future business, did me a favor on this one. I appreciate it and wrote a letter to AR today expressing my gratitude. In the end, it just came down to communication between both parties after a very rocky start.

 

Warranty issue aside, whoever asked owner to drive the car to the shop rather than tow it without caution or diagnosis didn't really the customer's or the Alfa Romeo mark's best interest at heart.
A year ago I managed to 'DRIVE' my rattling 75 GTA clone to the shop and saved a nickle on towing charges. But rather than just change head gasket and maybe rings and bearings, I ended up melted bearings and cracked crankshaft and an expensive year long adventure in parts sourcing and fighting with mechanics who have better things to do with their time than to resurrect what they see as a dead 'old' car.
Our instinct as owners is to stop the car when something goes wrong. The very least the dealer should have done was to get car towed "as under limited warranty" and asses the situation (technically and commercially) in their shop without the risk of severe damage driving a damaged car.
My 2 cents...

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Okay.... So I have finally ran into the "Christmas Tree of Death" lights. I went to the track yesterday which is ~1 hour from the house. I drove all the way there in Dynamic mode, and had NO issues. I sat for about 2 hours before my first session, and I backed out of my spot and got the transmission failure lights and everything. I tried a bunch of diagnostics with my "cheap" OBDII reader. There seemed to be two basic issues. The "Check Engine" light seem to keep triggering due to a P2138 error, which my OBDII reader says is a "Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor Voltage Correlation" error. All this seemed to do is trigger the check engine light, and make the throttle very insensitive (you couldn't change out of Normal Mode either). This did appear (on occasion) to kick the transmission fault... Not sure exactly what is going on here.. I am also getting U11D4 (Manufacture Defined) and U0415 (Invalid data received from ABS control module). An engine restart seemed to clear the Transmission light. I ended up calling it quits at the track and drive home, but the strange part was that it periodically would trigger the transmission light.

Three pieces of additional information.
1) I recently rebuilt my calipers which did introduce a bubble in the brake lines when I inadvertently sucked the reservoir low on one tire. We had a hell of a time bleeding the system, but it does appear (and feel) that we got all of the bubbles out. So I'm not sure if there might be a small bubble in the ABS module/pump that could be causing the U0415 ABS issue. Thoughts?

2) I have ALWAYS had a tire speed difference on the left hand side of the car vs the right hand side. I have noted this with my VBOX, and have just recently started talking with the Alfa dealer about looking into this error. When I review my VBOX data from my drive home yesterday. I noted that the wheel speed seems to "hang" for a second or two before updating again. I'm not sure if this occurred before or after Transmission fault, as the VBOX records a few seconds after i shut off the ignition to get it to clear.

3) My car has not been driven much since my last track day in November. Only some of that time I have put it on the trickle charger. I have now had the charger on overnight, and will test if I get the problems again...

Car Info: 2015 MY with 16,700 miles

 

Okay.... So I have finally ran into the "Christmas Tree of Death" lights. I went to the track yesterday which is ~1 hour from the house. I drove all the way there in Dynamic mode, and had NO issues. I sat for about 2 hours before my first session, and I backed out of my spot and got the transmission failure lights and everything. I tried a bunch of diagnostics with my "cheap" OBDII reader. There seemed to be two basic issues. The "Check Engine" light seem to keep triggering due to a P2138 error, which my OBDII reader says is a "Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor Voltage Correlation" error. All this seemed to do is trigger the check engine light, and make the throttle very insensitive (you couldn't change out of Normal Mode either). This did appear (on occasion) to kick the transmission fault... Not sure exactly what is going on here.. I am also getting U11D4 (Manufacture Defined) and U0415 (Invalid data received from ABS control module). An engine restart seemed to clear the Transmission light. I ended up calling it quits at the track and drive home, but the strange part was that it periodically would trigger the transmission light.

Three pieced of additional information.
1) I recently rebuilt my calipers which did introduce a bubble in the brake lines when I inadvertently sucked the reservoir low on one tire. We had a hell of a time bleeding the system, but it does appear (and feel) that we got all of the bubbles out. So I'm not sure if there might be a small bubble in the ABS module/pump that could be causing the U0415 ABS issue. Thoughts?

2) I have ALWAYS had a tire speed difference on the left hand side of the car vs the right hand side. I have noted this with my VBOX, and have just recently started talking with the Alfa dealer about looking into this error. When I review my VBOX data from my drive home yesterday. I noted that the wheel speed seems to "hang" for a second or two before updating again. I'm not sure if this occurred before or after Transmission fault, as the VBOX records a few seconds after i shut off the ignition to get it to clear.

3) My car has not been driven much since my last track day in November. Only some of that time I have put it on the trickle charger. I have now had the charger on overnight, and will test if I get the problems again...

Car Info: 2015 MY with 16,700 miles

Oh no! Man, and all this before you went out on the track.

I was thinking, "low system voltage", but, after a two hour drive, I expect the system to be fully charged or the issue to have started much earlier.

I doubt that a bubble in the brake line to be causing this, but as sensitive as our cars are to things... one never knows for sure.

Hopefully, your 4C is still in warranty, mine just expired two months ago.

 

Thanks @Racer Z & @Call me Al. I expect these type of issues when you push the car on track. I have had 24 or so track days with my car with almost zero issues. The first two being the rear rotor drag, and now this. The rear rotor was 90% fixed at the track in 20 minutes (didn't figure everything 100% out until rebuild completed). This was the first time I had to call it quits and miss a session or whole weekend. I did try a few things at the track to see if I could correct the issue. I cleared the codes multiple times, but they kept coming back. The throttle position sensor is the one that kept coming back on. Which is why I think it is the root trigger of the periodic transmission error (but not 100% sure). I did try a battery charger for about 30 minutes at the track as I know our cars can be sensitive. It didn't take much of a charge. On the drive home, I probably had the car go into transmission fault about a dozen times. I have now left the car overnight on the CTEK tender, everything seems "OK" with the battery. I'm going to take a quick drive and see if I can retrigger anything.
@Call me Al - Interesting that you also have had the U0415 error. My ESC faults that have tripped me into "Normal" mode on track may not be related to that code, like I had assumed.

 

So I have had the battery on the CTEK charger for the past 24 hours, and I just took the car for a little joy ride and couldn't get any faults. :| :| :| :| It doesn't eliminate the battery was the cause of the gremlins, but I may just use it as an excuse to get a Braille or other LiPO version.

 

I hate to say this but its very similar to the electrical problem that had my car stuck at Santa Monica Alfa for over 2 months before they finally figured it out. They never did tell me what it was but it was not the ECU because they tried that.

The easiest thing to do with any electrical problem is check the battery. After I had my battery replaced I threw a bunch of warning lights the first 5 minutes of driving. Then, on restart, they all went away never to appear again. So the batteries are really critical to the use of the sensors.

 

I hate to say this but its very similar to the electrical problem that had my car stuck at Santa Monica Alfa for over 2 months before they finally figured it out. They never did tell me what it was but it was not the ECU because they tried that.



The easiest thing to do with any electrical problem is check the battery. After I had my battery replaced I threw a bunch of warning lights the first 5 minutes of driving. Then, on restart, they all went away never to appear again. So the batteries are really critical to the use of the sensors.

Yes battery may have enough charge to crank the engine over but not enough to keep those sensors happy. But more importantly, why would the dealer keep the repair solution a "secret"... I would be very frustrated not knowing what was wrong on my car even if it was repaired...

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